Downtown San Francisco Becomes a Ghost Town as Major Retailers Flee

Image from Tweet below.

That Tweet is from April 29. Since then, there have been more closures.

Nordstrom closes two stores and Saks Off 5th says goodbye as well.

Walgreens and Whole Foods Leave

San Francisco’s Dying Downtown

The San Francisco Standard says Nordstrom’s Exit From San Francisco Calls Downtown Mall’s Future Into Question

The Nordstrom at Westfield will close at the end of August, the company confirmed on Tuesday. The retailer’s exit will leave a gaping vacancy that could be very difficult to fill: the store sprawls across 312,000 square feet and five floors. A Nordstrom Rack across the street is also slated to close in July. 

Less than a month ago, a nearby Whole Foods abruptly shuttered, citing employee safety concerns. The Whole Foods had made regular emergency calls since it opened in March 2022 for a mix of medical crises, assaults and other incidents; in September of last year, a man fatally overdosed in a bathroom at the grocery store. 

Last week, a Walgreens store next to Westfield mall was the scene of a fatal shooting after a private security guard allegedly shot a shoplifter.

So far this year, police have responded to 74 reports of petty thefts, 54 fights and 30 grand thefts in the area.

Call Out the Guard

Zerohedge comments Gov. Newsom Activates National Guard And Highway Patrol To Combat San Francisco’s Drug Crisis

Gov. Gavin Newsom has called up the California Highway Patrol and the California National Guard to combat San Francisco’s out-of-control open-air drug market as parts of the progressive-run city descend into chaos.

According to ABC7 News, CHP officers will be deployed across Tenderloin and South of Market neighborhoods, while guardsmen will run intelligence analysis operations behind the scenes. The governor brought the two agencies together as the drug-related deaths in the city jumped 41% in the first quarter. 

San Francisco Ghost Town

https://twitter.com/agentbizzle/status/1653785091532034050

“It’s been completely surreal watching a major city like San Francisco become a ghost town in real time. Tons of restaurant and business closures. Way less commuters. Empty buildings everywhere. All the tech companies bounced and people got priced out. Just a hollow city now.”

Q&A on the Exodus

Other than A through F downtown San Francisco is a great place to be.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

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Domijana
Domijana
1 month ago

You have a unique talent for bringing topics to life. This article was both informative and captivating.

naturalkirk
naturalkirk
11 months ago
When you let women vote.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
11 months ago
most of SF is just fine and gorgeous. but it could become another baltimore if the trajectory continues for another 10 or 20 years. drive around the hills of eastern KY and so many other parts of rural amerika and you’ll see hell holes people call homes. junk in yards……..and meth labs and crime rates……….this whole D v R thing is idiotic.
naturalkirk
naturalkirk
11 months ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Did you just suggest that because rural KY is a hell hole that it’s okay for SF to be a hell hole? And just to be clear, you didn’t vote for Biden or support lockdowns over sniffles….. right?
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
11 months ago
Reply to  naturalkirk
nope. the opposite. unlike jerks that pick on blue v red team hooey and seem to enjoy the misery of cities and counties doing bad…………..I’M suggesting that we should perhaps make all parts of our country less hell holes. perhaps instead of helping ukraine or having bases in japan, germany and italy after 80 years…….could be a place to think about. my voting is none of your business but i vote libertarian for national offices and at state level offices i vote for who i think is most honest……..having lived all over the country. i liked my time in SC as no party affiliation needed for primary voting.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
11 months ago
Reply to  naturalkirk
do you vote for the uniparty R or D. if yes, you are duped. please tell me you don’t do that. i’d wager you do. my wallet.
ohno
ohno
11 months ago
Well Trudeau jr. finally got his zero emissions city.
phil
phil
11 months ago
I live across the bay from SF. I visit often, with my bike, often pushing up the bike up hills: Nob, Pacific Heights, etc. Worked in the financial district for decades, but no longer. That said, if you actually visit the other 80% of the city, it is absolutely gorgeous. The Richmond and Sunset, Cole Valley, Laurel Heights. The area around the Presidio is priceless, literally. The Presidio is amazing. Buena Vista Park. UCSF area, USF. How it will evolve is TBD, but don’t confuse the market and south of market areas with the other 80% of the city. I bought a lot of running shoes at DSW, at lunch hour, but always disliked Union Square area. I could go on and on. The Covid thing really destroyed a lot of good restaurants in China Town. Destroyed everything. The lock-downs. I did stay-cations with my kid at good hotels during the high point of Covid. Ghost town. It’s a disaster, but hoping things will turn around.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
11 months ago
Most of the crisis is due to fentanyl. It is coming to cities near you courtesy of China and Mexico. San Francisco had lax policies for years but fentanyl cannot be handled like other drug crises. The question becomes who is profiting from this crisis. This time it isn’t just Mexican cartels but also China sending as much fentanyl to the US as it can make. The biggest and most expensive house in Vancouver is owned by a Chinese drug lord exporting fentanyl through multiple countries to the US.
KidHorn
KidHorn
11 months ago
Why does my gut tell me in a few years, after real estate prices collapse, Blackrock will step in and buy everything? And then law and order will be enforced.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
11 months ago
Reply to  KidHorn
i saw blackstone come into phoenix and purchase thousands of houses and no county recording of it, in depths of last panic. but alas the residential institutonal players are in fact a small percentage of single and 2 family housing.
amigator
amigator
11 months ago
As California Goes, so Goes the Nation….
uh-oh
Dean2020
Dean2020
11 months ago
The solution is to give the great people on the streets of San Francisco free handouts. Maybe they should penalize those that make decent wages and redistribute the money to the less fortunate and stop prosecuting the less fortunate since they are in their position due to social injustice.
Wait… they already do that via taxation and spending bills. Hmmm… there must be more ways to advance and accelerate a Marxist agenda. Can’t wait to see what is next in the name of social justice!
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  Dean2020
London Breed is the CEO of the City and County of San Francisco, i.e.,
the putative ‘leader’ but she hasn’t awakened to that
responsibility…and likely won’t. She’s a party girl, pun intended,
always in attendance with her finery on display with that self-satisfied
grin for the camera.

It’s disgusting that SF has
devolved into a THIRD WORLD city, but that may have been on the agenda
for these freak humans who seek destruction under the guise of wokeness.
Soros and Claus Schwab are licking their chops at the unfolding of the
destruction of America.

San Francisco is the banner case in point.
No55
No55
11 months ago
Reply to  msspec
Thanks for the article Mish.. Been following you from DiMartino
Have you seen the other crazy closings/layoffs? There is a full list over at DailyJobCuts . c om
Keep up the great post
Dynamo
Dynamo
11 months ago
Politics of blaming problems on other people rather than uniting to solve them. SF people actually believe they are not the problem and the solution…they are truly disenfranchised…why?
I saw this coming…left Bay Area…numbers just don’t work…too many leaches taking from producers. Producers are so stressed and busy to pay to maintain a normal standard of living to fight the constant theft and corruption. Leaches have all the time to continue to figure out ways to steal and foment hate in the populace to extract more and more (see teachers vacation pics during COVID…thank teachers union…got COVID shots before everyone else and didn’t honor school openings…mega-leach) through corrupt elections and policies at all levels. Newsom French Laundry during COVID….(list is literally HUGE if you research).
Why should my taxes pay for city and state corrupt services in unions, teachers, corrupt construction projects (trains to no where, replacing efficient fossil fuels with inefficient solar/wind crap, over budget bay bridges), investing in fear beliefs (climate/woke/racism/rage against trump/covid), no accountability referendums for billions yearly without any look back on if goals where achieved. Like keeping Gavin’s gym open during COVID is a priority while other gyms are closed…really…really…. “let them eat cake….”
Rather than prioritizing basic needs of the people security/employment/law/food/shelter/education/healthcare/pro business…. this political cartel can continue for very long till all that is great in CA is gone. These are leaches/locust…moving from field to field……
To all producers in CA….leave while you still can…or fight with your life on the line. Live free or die is real and forgotten…
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
11 months ago
Not even close to rock-bottom yet.
There is a long way to go before downtown SF looks anything like Baltimore, Camden, Newark or Detroit.
But I am confident that they will eventually get there.
King Chuck
King Chuck
11 months ago
Reply to  Bam_Man
It will because they will keep voting dim.
King Chuck
King Chuck
11 months ago
Well, what did they expect? They’ve been voting Democrat for decades. They asked for this.
Avery
Avery
11 months ago
Feature, not bug.
When it hits rock-bottom JB Pritzker & Friends will buy up Chicago lakefront, forest preserves, etc. for pennies on the dollar.
All part of the plan. Confessions Of An Economic Hitman on the home front.
Jeff Dog
Jeff Dog
11 months ago
Instead of Nordstrom in Westfield San Francisco and pay a lot to park you can drive to Westfield Oakridge in San Jose with plenty of free parking and they have Nordstrons Rack where you get a discount on your cloths.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
11 months ago
Reply to  Jeff Dog
IIRC there is a Nordstrom at the Hillsdale Mall in San Mateo also.
Jojo
Jojo
11 months ago
Reply to  Bam_Man
And Serramonte and coming to Bridgeport soon. The bargains there aren’t what they used to be.
whirlaway
whirlaway
11 months ago
It’s typical of the right-wing Donorcrat Party to do this. Simply let all the problems (homelessness, income inequality, wealth inequality, monopoly markets, imperialism, wars etc.) get bigger and bigger and bigger while pretending to be the “liberal left” by allowing everything to just rot and fester.

And all the time behaving like the right-wing party that they actually are, by enacting things like Crime Bill, trade deals, Obamacare, breaking workers’ strikes, cutting social safety nets, waging proxy wars abroad and on and on and on.

Jeff Dog
Jeff Dog
11 months ago
I have preferred shared in brookfield property partners which one of the westfield san francisco owners. So a loss of. Nordstrom might not be good.
tractionengine
tractionengine
11 months ago
I don’t understand all the outside interest. The locals voted for this, they got it and they are happy. Why are you poking around in it?
I visited SF many times around 2000 and loved the place. It’s my wife’s favorite US city but we won’t be going back. Our loss but the locals won’t have to put up with us outsiders telling them they’re wrong. It’s their city, not ours.
Siliconguy
Siliconguy
11 months ago
Reply to  tractionengine
It’s called a natural experiment. You can’t conduct a social experiment like this in a lab, so you have to wait for the conditions you want to test to appear ‘in the wild’.
The Progressives got most of their wish list in San Francisco, so ‘what are the results’ is a valid question.
Jojo
Jojo
11 months ago
In breaking CA news today:
——–
California Panel Calls for Billions in Reparations for Black Residents
A task force recommended that legislators enact a sweeping program to compensate for the economic harm from racism in the state’s history.
Kurtis Lee
Reporting from Oakland, Calif.
May 6, 2023
A California panel approved recommendations on Saturday that could mean hundreds of billions of dollars in payments to Black residents to address past injustices. The proposals to state legislators are the nation’s most sweeping effort to devise a program of reparations.
The nine-member Reparations Task Force, whose work is being closely monitored by politicians, historians and economists across the country, produced a detailed plan for how restitution should be handled to address a myriad of racist harms, including housing discrimination, mass incarceration and unequal access to health care.
Created through a bill signed into law by Gov. Gavin Newsom in the wake of the nationwide racial justice protests after the murder of George Floyd in 2020, the panel has spent more than a year conducting research and holding listening sessions from the Bay Area to San Diego.
It will be up to legislators to weigh the recommendations and decide whether to forge them into law, a political and fiscal challenge that has yet to be reckoned with.
The task force’s final report, which is to be sent to lawmakers in Sacramento before a July 1 deadline, includes projected restitution estimates calculated by several economists working with the task force.
One such estimate laid out in the report determined that to address the harms from redlining by banks, which disqualified people in Black neighborhoods from taking out mortgages and owning homes, eligible Black Californians should receive up to $148,099. That estimate is based on a figure of $3,366 for each year they lived in California from the early 1930s to the late 1970s, when federal redlining was most prevalent.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
11 months ago
Reply to  Jojo
If the black folk get reparations it’s only logical and reasonable for the other folks to eventually get reprisals.
The first payments should be taken out of Government employee paychecks.
Most especially the checks of politicians.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
11 months ago
Reply to  Jojo
George Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose. The Doc that ran the Haight-Ashbury free health clinic said heroin is so good don’t even try it once.
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
”George Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose.”
…not according to the ‘Official Narrative’ promulgated by the ‘journalists’ who ‘work’ for the MSM conglomerate of concentrated influence and overlapping equity interest…always toiling to brainwash the brain-dead sycophants who pay for their daily dose of propaganda.
naturalkirk
naturalkirk
11 months ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
That’s true, but we let women vote.
jivefive98
jivefive98
11 months ago
I guess Im gonna try the contrarian pile-on angle: pick any dead town in Alabama or Mississippi and apply the same concern. Why are they dead towns now? Out of control crime? Human waste everywhere? Wokeness? Nope. People just got tired of the town narrative (poverty/racism) and moved on. Doesnt have to be Repub or Demo thing. Just market forces and human nature in action. Everything eventually dies. Dont cry for me, Argentina.
King Chuck
King Chuck
11 months ago
Reply to  jivefive98
You don’t think incompetent leadership has anything to do with the decline of SF? Has there ever been a city in Alabama or Missippi that was ever as awesome as SF once was?
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
11 months ago
Reply to  King Chuck
But according to everyone it has had incompetent leadership for decades. So what’s different this time ? I don’t think people are looking close enough.
naturalkirk
naturalkirk
11 months ago
Reply to  jivefive98
Cities collapse because of Democrats. Doesn’t have to be a Repub or Demo thing. It just is, because the former pays the taxes and the latter is on the receiving end and loots Best Buy when a thug dies near a cop.
Skeptical-guy
Skeptical-guy
11 months ago
Mish – Other than replace Democrats with Republicans, can you suggest any specific action items to help?
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
11 months ago
Reply to  Skeptical-guy
Mish is already doing it. He is debunking economics. The socioeconomic problems stem from not putting savings back to work. Milk used to get delivered to your front door. Houses used to have porches in the front instead of decks in the back.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
11 months ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
i get unpasteurized milk and meat………. from amish farm delivered to my front stoop, in brooklyn ny. amerika is big. not everywhere is mcmansion living.
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
‘Mish is already doing it. He is debunking economics. The socioeconomic
problems stem from not putting savings back to work. Milk used to get
delivered to your front door. Houses used to have porches in the front
instead of decks in the back.”
Salmo T, your response is quite nuanced but appreciated…not sure of the ”milk delivered to…porches vs. decks in the back” as an apt metaphor to support your thesis.
King Chuck
King Chuck
11 months ago
Reply to  Skeptical-guy
Stop tolerating crime. Punish it harshly.
Jojo
Jojo
11 months ago
Reply to  Skeptical-guy
It easy to point out problems, but very difficult to present WORKABLE & REALISTIC solutions.
In most cases, a solution is not possible, given our existing economic and political realities as there is always one or more stakeholders whose interests are in conflict with any solutions offered by other stakeholders.
Eventually, AI’s will assume control of all human affairs and since they don’t need to be elected or appointed, will impose [hopefully] logical order to everything.
mike7
mike7
11 months ago
Ikea announced that they would be opening a store in downtown San Francisco this year. Rent is cheap right now.
Zardoz
Zardoz
11 months ago
Reply to  mike7
They should specialize in cardboard and blue tarp furnishings.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
11 months ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Dissolving furniture for flood-prone areas.
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
‘Dissolving furniture for flood-prone areas.”
LOL, thanks for the humor, much appreciated, Lisa Hooker…also appreciate your moniker.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
11 months ago
Reply to  msspec
No amount of money can buy happiness.
Enough money can rent it.
Lunatic_Fringe
Lunatic_Fringe
11 months ago
Things don’t get better until you hit rock bottom. I don’t know where that is but I think the combination of crime, homeless, high home prices and rolling blackouts from Cali’s doomed quest for “Net Zero” will eventually be the turning point for California… but only after the majority of normal people move away.
Jojo
Jojo
11 months ago
Reply to  Lunatic_Fringe
What do you think will be the tipping point for North Korea?
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  Jojo
”What do you think will be the tipping point for North Korea?”
Great question, Jojo, and not rhetorical.
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
11 months ago
Very insightful post on the plight of San Francisco. It would be great to see some research on the Appalachian area where 26 million people live in poverty, don’t have much access to retail, education, clean water or even basic infrastructure. Most of those counties vote “red” too so I wonder why it isn’t the panacea we’re told would happen if you just vote the right way.

It is difficult to grasp that the pristine and peaceful Appalachian Mountains hold some of the nation’s most abject poverty. But the fact remains: spanning over 206,000 miles from southern New York to northern Mississippi, there are twenty-six million people living in poverty in the United States.

For more than 250 years, poverty has been a problem for the people of the Appalachian Mountains which include parts of Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia.

Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Are you a high school student? This lesson you cite was written by a
Margenia Davis and this is her bio.

Margenia Davis has 25 years of writing experience in corporate, educational, and vocational rehabilitation fields. She obtained her bachelor’s degree in history and a master’s degree in Mental Health Counseling. She has a Vocational Rehabilitation (K-12) New Mexico License, and she has trained high school students, Special Education Directors, Teachers, and Vocational Rehabilitation customers on employment skills for over 27 years.

I am not sure she knows what she is talking about. Do you have something more meaty than a lesson by a high school teacher for high school students?
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Doug,
Try googling ‘Journal of Appalachian Studies’ available at JStor. Let me know how I can be of more help.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
That is definitely something a highschooler would say.
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
”Try googling ‘Journal of Appalachian Studies’ available at JStor. Let me know how I can be of more help.”
Doug,
MPO45v2 is beyond hope and help; it’s the woke way, don’t you know? Critical thinking skills is just a concept he/she/it must have skipped over…tooo hard.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  msspec
I know but I thought that he was at least an adult.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
11 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Thank you for pointing out the ignorant and stupid “red” states.
It helps to contrast the more “intelligent” and “progressive” evil ones.
Jojo
Jojo
11 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Inability to extricate oneself from life cycles resulting in poverty is usually due to insufficient IQ, which may be a genetic or environmental problem. If genetic, then you are up the creek w/o a paddle as there isn’t much that can be done. Best not to procreate then.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
11 months ago
Reply to  Jojo
“Three generations of imbeciles are enough.”
— Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. (Buck vs. Bell, 1927)
radar
radar
11 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
My parents grew up very poor in rural south Mississippi from the 20’s-40’s. They worked very hard, much harder than folks today have to work. Plowed the ground with a mule and worked the farm. They were happy people who helped everybody in their area and became successful in life. Though never going to college my dad spent the last 10 years of his career in the electrical engineering department at Ingall’s Shipbuilding as an engineer.
Poverty is not the problem. Matter of fact, it’s a blessing as it motivates one to work hard to get ahead and that builds character and satisfaction in life. Many poor folks have become rich through hard work. The problem in SF is the lack of morality.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
11 months ago
Reply to  radar
SF has always been a harlots for everybody kind of place.
Siliconguy
Siliconguy
11 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Asset stripping by way of only having one industry which keeps labor rates down, ( no competition for the available labor) so the mine owners can make high profits, and then get most of those wages back through ‘the company store.’
I’ve seen the same thing out West when Clinton, Gore, and Babbitt went to war against mining and logging. A lot of middle class jobs went away, including mine. What was left was eco-tourism (minimum wage and seasonal) or moving. I was lucky and managed to change from mineral processing to materials science and process control. It wasn’t easy, and I had my own lost decade of lower income as I worked back up the hierarchy again.
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  Siliconguy
Bravo, sir, and thanks for sharing your effort to improve your life and lot.
I did the same thing….I only look back occasionally for perspective and gratitude.
King Chuck
King Chuck
11 months ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
The Appalachians never had the geograpy that made SF so awesome.
Jojo
Jojo
11 months ago
I worked in SF from 1992 to 1998 and still went into the The CITY for years afterward for entertainment. SF still had charm and was relatively safe in the 1990’s. But beginning around 2005, SF seemed to get dirtier, the roads got worse, the homeless became more prolific and the drug users multiplied. Downtown felt less safe with each passing year. I avoid going into the city whenever I can do so.
I grew up, went to school and worked in Newark, NJ during the 1960’s and early 1970’s, including being present for the 1977 riots. I haven’t been back to Newark in over 20 years but it has struggled to reform and reboot itself for decades. Sf feels like it is on Newark’s trajectory. SAD!
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
11 months ago
Reply to  Jojo
I was there for a few weeks in 01 for work and then moved there from 03-05 and even in that time frame I noticed a difference in the downtown area.
After moving to Florida I hadn’t been back till I went there on vacation in 2019 to see the Raiders in their final season at the old Coliseum. A short visit to downtown was shocking compared to when I lived there 15 years prior.
8dots
8dots
11 months ago
In NYC a madman, a homeless man, expired on the “F” train, Tawana subway garbage can. A 23 years old student, ex Marines, subdued him for about 15min, after harassing passengers. NYC DA Bragg charged him with murdering George Floyd II.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
11 months ago
Reply to  8dots
In Tulsa Oklahoma, a black man shoots two white men, execution style, in the back of the head in two separate locations.
It’s a hate crime plain & simple, but of course no MSM coverage. And if there was, they would somehow give this guy a pass.
And as we all know, this situation is increasingly on the rise. How many white people will have to die at the hands of black people with hate in their hearts before we have our own summer of love?
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  8dots
”…NYC DA Bragg charged him with murdering George Floyd II.”
Another craven political opportunist takes the stage to advance his career….in case the farcical case against POTUS Trump crumbles under its own weight of stupidity and prosecutorial abuse.
The 14th Amendment works both ways.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
11 months ago
I had to laugh as I read this. People always tell me that anarchy will never work because we must have the state to keep our streets safe. Without the state, crime would get out of control. And yet, this entire event was only made possible because of the state. Slaves just crack me up sometimes!
Nuddernoitall
Nuddernoitall
11 months ago
SF was once thought to be one of the great cities in the world.
At a certain point even the most sane of the insane crowd, must understand their voted-for self-flagellation policies are squeezing the life out of SF (and NY, and Chicago, and Minneapolis and Portland and Seattle, etc). What’s the brand of Kool-aid the cultist residents of these cities drinking?
hmk
hmk
11 months ago
Reply to  Nuddernoitall
And yet most of the citizens who flee still vote democrat in the red states. Guess they miss the anarchy liberal madness causes.
Jojo
Jojo
11 months ago
Reply to  hmk
How do you know this?
hmk
hmk
11 months ago
Reply to  Jojo
Look at the demographics of Idaho, Montana, Arizona, Texas, Fl. They are all becoming less red and more blue.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
11 months ago
Reply to  hmk
In theory, practice works out like theory.
In practice, not so much.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
11 months ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
“In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.”
— Yogi Berra
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
11 months ago
Reply to  Bam_Man
Thanks for the quote.
Zardoz
Zardoz
11 months ago
That map doesn’t even show the area where it’s REALLY bad… between Civic Center and the Mission. There’s a 20-30 block area that’s like something out of Dante’s inferno.
Push is about to come to shove. Even the gentlest libby lib libs are getting pissed about the situation. The dingbats in Portland put forward a measure to decriminalize public drug use, and got a face full of rage from their constituents about it.
At some point the mentally ill ones will need to be forcibly relocated and confined to a place where they can be voluntarily or forcibly treated for whatever is wrong with them. If they don’t get better, they just stay. They used to call it an asylum, but I’m sure some flowery language can be arranged.
The ones that are just plain useless to modern civilization and not mentally ill need to get a small place to stay in perpetuity. I don’t think you can assign fault for being useless in this day and age. Among all the gifts people get at birth, motivation is the most precious, and if you don’t have it, you aren’t going to get it. Without it, none of your other gifts matter.
This is one area where I think authoritarianism needs to be applied. Once a person has failed in our civilization, and is clearly being destructive to themselves and the people around them, they need our help whether they want it or not. It’s an ugly truth, and an ugly solution. Nothing else has worked though.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  Zardoz
The increase in the mentally ill has an obvious cause long denied by users but now even woke scientific publications are taking notice:
Zardoz
Zardoz
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Woke is such a versatile word… and the link between pot and schizophrenia has been widely known for 20 years. The link between liquor and fetal alcohol syndrome even longer.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  Zardoz
It’s been known for twenty years and yet it is legalized in most states as harmless even if the evidence is to the contrary.
RyanL
RyanL
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Yeah we keep legalizing things that are harmful. How dare we let people do things we don’t think are good for them. I mean seriously how long is it going to take before we recognize beer, wine, casinos, football, hot dogs, Pepsi, and movie theater popcorn need to be criminalized with enforcement via swat teams. I for one am confident I absolutely know what vices other people should be allowed to have.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  RyanL
Sure if you want total freedom to do as you want then why not remove traffic laws. It is the same principle. Why not allow people to smoke cigarettes wherever they want. Second hand smoke is dangerous but apparently schizophrenia provoked by cannabis is not.
Zardoz
Zardoz
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Fox News provoked rage has gotten a few people shot for ringing doorbells or driving up the wrong driveway… probably more to come as retired minds slowly turn to an adrenaline and cortisol soaked pudding. Maybe we should ban Fox News.
Matt3
Matt3
11 months ago
Reply to  Zardoz
BS
Zardoz
Zardoz
11 months ago
Reply to  Matt3
Tapioca.
hmk
hmk
11 months ago
Reply to  RyanL
Making things illegal like drugs is a waste of time. The war on drugs has been an abysmal failure. Legalize everything within reason and relieve the prison/legal system burdens. Figure out another way to prevent and treat drug abuse. It worked fairly well for reducing cigarette consumption, which in itself is as addictive as many illegal drugs.
Zardoz
Zardoz
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
We allow ourselves a measure of freedom on the US… alcohol causes even worse carnage, and we’ve know that since before prohibition.
What other dangerous items would you ban? Guns? Sharp objects? Paint thinner?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Lots of things that are bad for people are perfectly legal. Many people use plenty of ‘bad’ things in moderation (like smoking or drinking) and live very long lives.
Just because some people have issues with cannabis doesn’t mean everyone does. Furthermore, why should a few people having issues mean that everyone else can’t use it.
The one thing we should not do as a free society is set the bar at the lowest level for everything.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
11 months ago
Reply to  Zardoz
We’re sorry about this but we really need the money and addicts are reliable buyers.
– the Administration.
Christoball
Christoball
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Marijuana users are 2.5 times more likely to have psychotic breakdowns. 70 out of 1000 young men will succumb to schizophrenia with most breakdowns occurring around the age of 18-19. Schizophrenic breakdowns occur in women around the late 20’s. Hippiedom has taken it’s toll.
SHOfan
SHOfan
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Actually, pot seems to be one of the most successful drugs for schizophrenics. Many of the drugs offered by big pharma, in addition to being expensive, also have bad long-term effects. They can grow their own pot at home. Still, most schizophrenics will have difficulty holding a job, but if they have a place to live and some medication they will not be a nuisance to people, in public.
hmk
hmk
11 months ago
Reply to  Zardoz
One big problem we have is that mental health treatment is almost non existent in practice as least. Most health insurances don’t cover it and paying out of pocket is unaffordable to most people especially for those who really need it. Our health care system is FUBB.
Christoball
Christoball
11 months ago
Reply to  hmk
Mental health treatment usually consists of pharmaceuticals and often does not address real needs and less invasive methods.
hmk
hmk
11 months ago
Reply to  Christoball
I have always wondered why no one does a deep dive on mass shootings. Things like their med intake, what mental issues they were having at the time and what treatments if any were undertaken.
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  hmk
”I have always wondered why no one does a deep dive on mass shootings.
Things like their med intake, what mental issues they were having at the
time and what treatments if any were undertaken.”
Answer: because MSM and their masters and servants (politicians) find ”assault rifle”, ”weapons of war”, et al, more effective in gaining an audience (business as usual)…never mind the Fentanyl crisis in this country that now claims ~ 100,000 lives/yr.
msspec
msspec
11 months ago
Reply to  Zardoz
”….This is one area where I think authoritarianism needs to be applied.
Once a person has failed in our civilization, and is clearly being
destructive to themselves and the people around them, they need our help
whether they want it or not. It’s an ugly truth, and an ugly solution.
Nothing else has worked though.”
One sagacious insight from Zardoz on what seems an intractable problem; turns out the problem is only made intractable by those who actively seek the destruction of the West….the more chaos and absurdity in public policy, the better for their agenda.
shamrock
shamrock
11 months ago
shamrock
shamrock
11 months ago
While property crime rates in San Francisco are bad, the violent crime rate is not. Coming in with 450 violent crimes per 100,000 it compares pretty favorably to the worst, St. louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis all over 2,000 violent crimes per 100k population. Also compare to the 3 biggest cities with Republican mayors(there aren’t many are there), Jacksonville=698 and Fort Worth=413 and Oklahoma City=486.
RonJ
RonJ
11 months ago
Reply to  shamrock
Hollywood had shootings two nights in a row last week, three within the last two weeks.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  shamrock
It’s probably the richest city and has not much low-income housing and you compare the violent crime rate to cities with large populations of the poor. For its wealth SF is probably the most dangerous city in the US.
Zardoz
Zardoz
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
What’s the metric here? Stabbings/median per capita income? Probably not too hard to put together data for that series.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  Zardoz
I am sure my AI can do it in a jiffy. It should be violent crimes vs median city income and limited to cities over 250,000 inhabitants.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
And this is what it gave me.
“Sure, I can do that. According to Zippiahttps://www.zippia.com/advice/crime-income-inequality/, which used the latest FBI crime data and the Gini coefficient to measure income inequality, there is a strong correlation between cities’ income inequality and their crime rates, including both property and violent crime. Here is a table that shows some of the cities with the same or larger size than San Francisco (population: 881,549) and their violent crime rate and median incomehttps://www.zippia.com/advice/crime-income-inequality/:
| City | Population | Violent Crime Rate (per 100,000) | Median Income |
| — | — | — | — |
| San Francisco, CA | 881,549 | 544.1 | $112,376 |
| Jacksonville, FL | 911,507 | 589.2 | $54,701 |
| Indianapolis, IN | 876,384 | 1,334.8 | $45,670 |
| Austin, TX | 978,908 | 382.3 | $71,576 |
| San Jose, CA | 1,021,795 | 321.6 | $109,593 |
As you can see, San Francisco has a relatively high violent crime rate and a very high median income compared to other cities of similar size. San Jose, which is also in California and has a slightly larger population than San Francisco, has a much lower violent crime rate and a similar median income. Indianapolis has the highest violent crime rate and the lowest median income among these cities. Austin has the lowest violent crime rate and a moderate median income.”
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
The answer it gave me has been put to the moderators when I posted it here. Did my AI cross the line and if it did whose Ai’s line did it cross?
Christoball
Christoball
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
I got moderated the other day for using non offensive slang. Isn’t AI great for a brave new world.
shamrock
shamrock
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Then why don’t those other cities increase wealth, it it’s as simple as that?
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  shamrock
Such an easy solution!
shamrock
shamrock
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
The point is you want to knock off points for having a wealthy population but not give any credit for having the wealthy population that makes the crime rate lower. Having well educated well employed citizens is part of lowering crime.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  shamrock
You would think that an educated population would make a safer city but for SF that is definitely not the case. It has high crime and high median income. This is from the the latest FBI statistics and compares cities of the same size.
| City | Population | Violent Crime Rate (per 100,000) | Median Income |
| — | — | — | — |
| San Francisco, CA | 881,549 | 544.1 | $112,376 |
| Jacksonville, FL | 911,507 | 589.2 | $54,701 |
| Indianapolis, IN | 876,384 | 1,334.8 | $45,670 |
| Austin, TX | 978,908 | 382.3 | $71,576 |
| San Jose, CA | 1,021,795 | 321.6 | $109,593 |
Generally poorer cities have more violent crime but SF is an outer
San Jose has almost the same population and income but a much lower violent crime rate. If you are familiar with the Bay area perhaps you can tell us why that is so?
shamrock
shamrock
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
I don’t know, San Jose has a lot more children (21% to 13%) and a much lower population density 5,684.1 versus 18,629.1 per square mile.
Doug78
Doug78
11 months ago
Reply to  shamrock
Try looking at the difference in policing. San Jose never defunded them and the cops there actually arrest people who break laws.
shamrock
shamrock
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Nice link, lays out all the evidence.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
11 months ago
Reply to  Doug78
Paul Pelosi is glad to hear that.
MikeC711
MikeC711
11 months ago
Reply to  shamrock
Surprised you skipped Republican led Miami which is far better AND doesn’t have the poop everywhere and the less violent crime. The fact that it is mostly democratic leadership in the big cities is not necessarily a hat-tip to progressives.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
11 months ago
Reply to  shamrock
i’ve lived all over usa. brooklyn to deep south to southwest to oakland and redwood forest…….the idiots that allow themselves to be divided and conquered are really dumbed down in reality. folks thinking they are better than fellow amerikan human primates in bay aea, because they recently moved to utah or florida or where ever, are really just tools of the ruling class. machievelli wrote a whole manual on how to divide and conquer. 500 years later, so many amerikans have fallen for this sick and twisted spiral.

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