Who Won?
Off the cuff, I would score it as a small victory for Trump. However, Trump needs more than a small victory.
Trump needs a crushing victory that brings in most of the undecided voters and switches a few others.
Biden’s Gaffe on Energy
Right at the end of the debate, Biden volunteered I “would transition from the oil industry” because “the oil industry pollutes significantly”
Trump pounced “Will you remember that, Texas? Will you remember that, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma? Ohio?”
Here’s another view.
All in all Biden was more specific, told fewer lies, and was far more compassionate and caring.
Biden scored points on the Trump administration separating over 500 kids from their parents who are now nowhere to be found.
Trump repeated his claim he has done more for blacks than an president since Abraham Lincoln is of course ridiculous. Johnson passed civil rights and voting rights legislation.
Trump also claimed he was the least racist person in the room. Such nonsense is highly unlikely to play well with women and blacks.
Trump repeated lies about Biden placing a ban on fracking.
Trump got very defensive over tax returns as Biden made a good counter to the Hunter Biden issue by bringing Trump’s tax returns into play.
Trump was most effective when he challenged Biden repeatedly about not accomplishing anything when he was vice president.
Biden admitted he made a mistake on legislation that resulted in higher black incarceration.
Yes Biden made a mistake but that bill passed the Senate unanimously. Admitting mistakes is the smart thing to do.
Opportunity Missed
Trump left a huge opening for Biden on prison incarceration.
Biden should have asked “What have you done in 4 years to change drug laws that throw mainly blacks in prison over marijuana?”
That could have been a telling blow.
Votes Already Cast
Over 50 million people have already voted. They did not care one bit about this debate.
Will it change minds? If so, why?
The most likely impact is not many, or at least not enough.
It’s “possible” the public sees more than I do one way or another. But that does go both ways.
What Does Win Mean?
The bar was set low for Biden in the first and low for Trump in the second.
A theme I heard for months from Republicans was “Just wait for the debates. Trump will kill him. Biden has dementia.”
The debates are over. The first was an obvious disaster for Trump. I will watch the polls on this one.
In neither debate did Biden come across as someone with dementia.
Realistically, if this final debate does not change enough minds, Biden won, even if the referees (the overall public) claim Trump landed more punches.
Mish
For the undecided, the old saying that the devil you know is better than the one you do not is going to play out to the chagrin of the liberals…. Elections are about emotions, and no one, and I mean no one is excited about the idea of senile Biden in the White House, and Pelosi invoking the 25th amendment to remove him and put Harris in…..
“Trump also claimed he was the least racist person in the room. Such nonsense…”
He says a lot of nonsense but I’m inclined to believe he is not racist. I don’t know of any racist statements he has made. Nationalistic xenophobic policies are something, but they aren’t racist. It’s almost as if the people who claim Trump is racist have never talked to an actual racist.
Racism is one of those few belief systems that need to be actively repudiated. You can’t judge just by having no info – that’s how the ‘systemic’ part of racism works; you just don’t talk about it but it is relied on to adjust results (voting, jobs, etc.).
Trump may not be (or believe that he is) racist, but his problem is that he has drawn support from groups that are openly racist. That is again how the systemic part manifests and that is what needs to be called out. That is also why it is a recurring problem for him.
Saying something/anything provides a potential soundbite. It also churns the conversation, making it impossible to focus on any one point.
Trump dated a black woman, Kara Young, for a period of two years in the late 1990’s. Those who say that doesn’t matter vis-a-vis his “racism” have a terminal case of Trump Derangement Syndrom.
Best part was when Biden threw Obama under the bus for the lack of accomplishments when they were in the white house.
BJ has sold out Britain, just as Biden would do.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/britain/boris-johnson-bill-gates/
I agree with you partially Mish, it was a mild Trump win IMO.
I have no earthly idea who will win and probably unlike most here I really don’t care that much because I don’t think it changes the long term course the USA is on- meaning some type of fiscal reset. (and I could be wrong)
I think this election will actually tell us whether we can ever trust polls again. It’s almost an identical situation electorally speaking as last go round, with most polls showing a Biden win…but I have my doubts. Trafalgar polling- one of the few that got it right last time, is showing Trumping nosing out Biden….so we’ll just have to wait and see.
Biden is an extremely flawed/weak candidate, as others have mentioned any other GOP candidate would mop the floor with him, but it’s not any other GOP candidate it’s Trump who has bungled his way through the last four years, a possible flawed candidate against a proven flawed candidate.
This is basically the 2016 election but reversed, Biden will win, but it won’t be Biden winning rather it will be a referendum on Trump, just as in 2016 it was a referendum on Hillary rather than Trump actually winning based on some solid platform. America is in for a wild ride the next few decades as you will see the same exact scenario but reversed in 2024.
Been thinking along those lines…..maybe Cruz vs.. Harris in 2024. Much more of an Austerity vs. Anti-racism/Soft Socialism fight. I’d expect Cruz to mop up…but maybe not with the changing demographics.
With the crazy money we’re spending now….and probably will spend before COVID is over..taxes for the middle class have to go up substantially to keep the game going. No matter who wins.
Tax-paying Americans might want to look for their exit strategy…..but not many good places let to go.
My take on the debate I didn’t watch….it was a Biden win because Trump HAD to make the Hunter Biden story come to front and center….and he didn’t make it into the bombshell he needed to change anything…..it was about his last chance to turn the tide…and he failed.
I also didn’t watch , he keeps harping on Hunter Biden, just digging the hole deeper, the public at large doesn’t give a damm about Hunter Biden even if he is corrupt. The public is looking for a solid guy who can steer the country going forward and won’t endanger the system, in other words they want a return to the status quo.
It also may be hurting him more than helping in other ways, in the fact that the public views Trump as pretty corrupt himself, so him saying someone is corrupt is a lot like Hillary saying it, it’s a whore calling another a whore, just comes off as unaware.
What a wreck
What does “separating over 500 kids from their parents who are now nowhere to be found” say about the parents?
Who their parents are is the question itself. There are orphans running all around central and S. America. Once it was decided to start gene testing for parenthood you can bet the fake parents using the orphans for entry into the country took off as soon as possible.
The whole thing is sad, but it’s really hard to place blame on anyone over it. My 17 year old daughter, who is pretty level headed, said to me last night “Dad, why are thy discussing something affecting 500 people where there are so many topics that affect all of us in the country?”
My answer: “Political points honey, that’s why.”
It’s not like we have the parents detained in building A and the kids are detained in building B and they can be instantly reunited. Many times, the kids were snuck in by adults other than their parents. Is the U.S. supposed to play private detective to locate the parents down in Mexico or South/Central America? Or feed and shelter the kids indefinitely at taxpayer expense? Or just make them all citizens? It’s a lose-lose situation.
If a U.S. citizen breaks the law and is arrested or imprisoned, well…. you’re going to be separated from your kids. Are we going to stop arresting criminals who happen to have kids at home? No. And sneaking into the United States is committing a crime so why is anyone surprised that there are unpleasant consequences?
says the united states acted shamefully to the parents. imagine having your children forecefully taken and the country that did it simpmly loses track?
I don’t know who lied more, but Biden steadfastly claimed he did nothing wrong with regards to Hunter. If later, it’s found he was clearly lying, this will hurt him far more than any lies Trump told.
Nobody cares. They just want trump out.
Probably true. When they say, “anybody but Trump” and “vote blue no matter who,” they mean it. You could probably put Hitler on the ballot and he’d beat Trump.
I’ve spent the morning reading the document below. I checked a few things for accuracy and found nothing wrong. That said, if only 10% true, it is devastating for Biden. If 50% true, he’s guilty of treason. Click on the embedded pdf link: ‘report’.
Just like all the Clinton corruption has affected Bill and Hillary?…….wait, the Clinton Foundation is still in business…they still have a huge impact on the Democratic Party.
Corruption is endemic in our system…..and the foxes are in charge of the hen house.
Rich people get away with murder. Ask Jeffery Epstein.
Hunter Biden’s laptop has emails which make it clear that Hunter Biden’s role at Burisma affected US policy toward Ukraine and Burisma ASKED for Hunter Biden and Joe Biden to PROTECT the owner of Burisma and Burisma and Joe Biden did that by DEMANDING Ukraine to fire the prosecutor looking into Burisma corruption before Biden’s Air Force 2 left Ukraine otherwise Ukraine would NOT get the billion.
The Senate Homeland Security Report was made BEFORE the Hunter Biden laptop emails started becoming public after the Mac Repair dude gave Giuliani and his lawyer a copy of the harddrive in September after getting frustrated that FBI had Hunter Biden’s laptop since December 2019 and did NOTHING.
Here is Joe Biden BRAGGING how he got the prosecutor fired:
Who cares? This stuff may or may not be true (and I doubt it is) but like a Trump supporter, I would vote for Joe even if he shot someone on 5th avenue.
Perhaps this will be Trump’s worst legacy. On both sides of the aisle, he’s created a bunch of cultish voters who will mindlessly vote for their “team” no matter who their team puts in the game.
Nobody cares.
The ignorance you display is why the US will hand the financial capital of the world to China after 2032. You obviously have not read the Great Reset plans being pushed by the WEF and UN, and even if you did, I doubt you would understand the implications.
As I stated before the debate, it doesn’t matter if Biden killed JFK, or thousands of doctors confirmed that the response to Covid is a scam, or that CO2 is only 4% of the atmosphere and a new mini ice age is just around the corner, the brain-washed Trump haters simply don’t care.
They don’t care that their hate is based on lies, or if the establishment won’t ask a single question about “big guy” Biden getting a cut of the take from family fraud, or that Biden will destroy their world by his support of green socialism and the Great Reset. Irrational hate trumps all. It’s the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The average Joe shouldn’t live their life with any regrets. The problem is the Trump haters are not your average Joe. They will regret their decision the rest of their lives, once they take off their face mask and let the oxygen get to their brain.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/ten-of-thousands-of-doctors-confirm-this-is-a-hoax/
I reviewed the Senate Homeland Security report. Its not long. This is a key finding. So if the idea was to connect something to Joe Biden , its not there. If Hunter Biden were running for President there would be a problem but he’s not.
“The extent to which Hunter Biden’s role on Burisma’s board affected U.S. policy toward Ukraine is not clear,” the report finds.
Now, connect the dots. Put the Senate report together with Hunter’s laptop.
we don’t know its his lap top
Has he denied that it is? Has anyone denied that it is? All I see is silence.
did you kill , jfk? you didn’t deny it?
It wasn’t him, but it wasn’t Oswald either. 🙂
It’s funny how the news lately has had me thinking maybe Jack Ruby wasn’t just some random night club owner with terminal cancer. 🙂
This debate was well moderated. Muting worked and the moderator did her job when not aided by muting.
The irony is that Biden is not a great candidate. The election really is a referendum on Trump. The majority of the country believes Trump has failed. On the debate stage Biden can wander. People know that about it him. Its baked in . That’s not to say Biden didn’t have his moments. He had several. If this election had him squaring off against Mitt Romney the Republicans would be winning this hands down. But Romney isnn’t the opponent Trump is.
An alternative view is the majority of the country has been repeatedly told Trump has failed, and now believe it. This is why people with critical thinking skills are constantly pointing at media influences.
For examaple, the NBC host of last night’s coverage said words to the effect that only Fox viewers had any idea what Trump was talking about. THAT IS AN INDICTMENT OF THE MASS MEDIA.
FactsOnJoe 10 hrs ago
“Chances of Biden having a meltdown just increased to 90%”
I had the odds of Biden sending someone over to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to measure the drapes at 95%
And the meltdown happened and Biden lost Pennsylvania and all other oil producing states just like that.
Is it enough?
I think so.
Trump will win about 275-285 electoral college votes.
Ha, any oil vote in PA would have been for Trump already anyways. All in the west. The big population centers in the east won’t care. Not to mention 30% have already voted.
you clearly live in the same world as trump. but i understand. reality is a b****.
tRumpians have become totally delusional.
Both sides are delusional. The media has succeeded.
One of the delusional sides will actually win the election and not gain awareness of their delusion.
I had to vote for Biden….and now if Biden wins….we’re on the slippery slope to UBI and reparations…..paid for by me.
Elections make me hate myself sometimes.
When has FactsonJoe been right about anything?
While Biden “won” he wasn’t always great. If Romney was the on that stage he would have cleaned Biden’s clock. Republicans may be having a bit of last minute buyer’s remorse
Tactical error to make Hunter his debate plan. Trump should have made it economy. economy, economy. Trump was vulnerable every place else. The Hunter Biden story is wonky. Only someone who lives on Right Wing TV and reads the NY Post daily would get it. The story is just not very credible
One day you will realize why the story is only on ‘Right Wing TV’ and the NY Post.
This is not about credibility, that’s the excuse for censorship by omission. Multiple sources are now coming forward to confirm the veracity. The question Trump should’ve asked: are Hunter’s purported emails REAL or FAKE?
I think the Hunter story is credible and damning, but I also resent that this crap is intentionally held until October of even years and then drip-released as the elections approached.
I hate Roy Moore but thought WaPo should’ve been hung by the balls for what they did to him in Fall 2018.
I hate the Democratic Party and how they fixed the primaries for Biden, but Guiliani springing this at the last minute is BS… and doing it via drip campaign… anger-inspiring.
One good thing about all this early voting — if it sticks, “October surprises” disappear. With voting spread out over an entire month, they need to release the dirt earlier, which gives people a chance to vet it.
how was the primary fixed? were votes changed?
The Hunter emails don’t bother me particularly. What bothers me is the lack of coverage by the media. If it was Don Junior’s emails, the press would be all over it. What is particularly damning is that the media doesn’t present the story and claim is it false; they simply hide it. I have seen no one claim that it wasn’t Hunter’s laptop, nor that the emails aren’t real, nor even that the emails are insignificant. They just ignore it, and ban discussion of it on Facebook and Twitter.
What the heck is going on with the press in American these days?
I would disagree slightly in that CBS, Washington Post and USAToday (among a couple others) actually took the story on initially and I was left with the impression that there was no way (with released info at the time) to verify the emails nor the history of the laptop. I do agree that I would like to see the story chased down – preferably by non-entertainment news organizations (not CNN, not Fox, not Breitbart, not Huffing glue, etc.)
I think it got lost because the sources of the info started becoming the story (Giuliani/Bannon). The presentation of the info was idiotic – don’t present screenshots/jpgs/pdfs that can obviously be doctored without also presenting the evidence that would be needed to verify authenticity. And the story kept shifting when anyone asked about verification – “what about this email to Hunter from Burisma – what is the proof here” — the response turned into “But China! He did coke and had sex with 14yr olds there!” The response to the questions was so wack-a-doodle that everyone that wanted to follow this just dropped it. This is actually quite unfortunate because it made a possibly important story look exactly like what the Dems said it was – a smear. If the responses had been measured and targeted, we would still be talking about it.
With Kavanaugh, Roy Moore, Trump… the media reports first, worries about facts later. Especially the NYT with their anonymous sources.
Now with Biden, they basically want a conviction before they’ll mention it, and they’re actively suppressing it. Suddenly they need to vet all the evidence.
Carl_R is right. The standard isn’t the same and it’s a big concern. I’m observing lots of powerful entities taking the “end justifies the means” approach to getting rid of Trump. It doesn’t. Trump is a blip on the radar. What they’re doing is the greater danger.
I don’t think I’m actually disagreeing with you. The story came out before verification – just like all the ones you mentioned. But then when it came to verification, everything just went … weird. And I just don’t think that’s the fault of the news organizations – I think there were attempts to gather verifying info and they got strange results. This is where the story started to become about the sources of the info rather than the subject of the info.
The one point I will fully agree with you about is the fact that ignoring the story (as the left-sided entertainment news did) says more about the news organization doing the ignoring than it does about the news itself.
I agree with that. The source of the information, Giuliani/Bannon, is not a trustworthy source. Maybe if some information comes from the FBI it will be covered.
Agreed – spotlight on Hunter is a huge error
No one but the base gives a damn
Trump also did poorly on health care and covid. By and large Biden outperformed. Most said the same. But even with a small win I expect the trajectory stays in tact. Trump needed a knockout. So by that measure a disaster. Biden did fumble on Energy. The answer was supposed to be a phase out of subsidies. Maybe this impacts Pennsylvania, Texas and Oklahoma but I doubt it as those interests were probably voting Trump anyway. Fact is there are few if any undecided votes
If you were an oil and gas MAGA voter in Pennsylvania and Texas you weren’t voting for Biden anyway. So while Biden might have answered better , it doesn’t matter. The Biden camp was never going to get these guys
This is TOO FUNNY!
THE DAILY SHOW WITH TREVOR NOAH
DESI LYDIC FOX-SPLAINS THE HUNTER BIDEN “SCANDAL”
Highlight10/22/2020
Conspiracy theory-addled Desi Lydic unloads about the Hunter Biden pseudo-scandal pushed by Rudy Giuliani and the Trump administration, breathlessly connecting all the dots.
What’s funny is you think this is funny, and CC never did anything similar during the Russian and Ukrainian hoax or the impeachment charade.
The ignorance you display is why the US will hand the financial capital of the world to China after 2032. You obviously have not read the Great Reset plans being pushed by the WEF and UN, and even if you did, I doubt you would understand the implications.
As I stated before the debate, it doesn’t matter if Biden killed JFK, or thousands of doctors confirmed that the response to Covid is a scam, or that CO2 is only 4% of the atmosphere and a new mini ice age is just around the corner, the brain-washed Trump haters simply don’t care.
They don’t care that their hate is based on lies, or if the establishment won’t ask a single question about “big guy” Biden getting a cut of the take from family fraud, or that Biden will destroy their world by his support of green socialism and the Great Reset. Irrational hate trumps all. It’s the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The average Joe shouldn’t live their life with any regrets. The problem is the Trump haters are not your average Joe. They will regret their decision the rest of their lives, once they take off their face mask and let the oxygen get to their brain.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/ten-of-thousands-of-doctors-confirm-this-is-a-hoax/
The dude Mish quoted that is claiming Texas oil industry is in shambles is an “I’m an electric car driving liberal that works in public health” so I would not take that as the whole picture of Texas oil industry or US oil industry or the strength of wind and solar.
The global oil demand crashed due to Covid and on top of that Russia and Saudis started an oil price war until Trump got them and Mexico too to cut production and as part of that deal USA also cut production temporarily so the prices would rise to a level that is profitable for USA oil industry but still low enough so gasoline is cheap for voters so the layoffs are temporary until Covid is over and oil demand rises after which people will be hired back.
Texas wells are easy to close for a while but fracking needs to be sucked all the time so Texas took the brunt of the lowering of oil demand and production cuts in USA and those jobs should be back next year.
Texas is still pumping on many wells however because Texas crude is easier and cheaper to make into gasoline than the fracked oil.
Well, Trump certainly put all his money on the Hunter laptops.
People understand and forgive crookedness in politicians. It’s expected, not feared.
Trump goofed big-time on the last question. He should have applied judo and given an “I am the president for all Americans” answer before Biden could. Yes, Trump should have said what he said in his first TV appearance after winning the 2016 election.
Trump said that literally the night that he got elected and Democrats and media were attacking him already the next day.
Democrats were stunned but Trump fumbled right out of the gate. It was almost four years ago but Jared sabotaged the Christie transition effort. It took weeks for Trump to start a transition team. Many were poorly vetted. Almost from the beginning factions developed and the public was treated to each faction leaking and attacking the other. Meanwhile information was quickly coming out about Flynn , Trump and his campaign team and it was inevitable an investigation would follow. This was no Democratic coup, it was the system playing out. To his credit once they regrouped Trump and Rudy wore Mueller down. Trump got people to stay quiet and Mueller never got his in person interview. Was Trump guilty? Mueller didn’t prove it but there’s a case to be made that Trump was guilty. The Senate committee did a good job in crossing the t-s and dotting the i’s but the Senate wasn’t making a prosecutor’s case.
Jared is an IDIOT and threw the Christie staffing plans to trash just because he was bitter that Christie locked up his dad as D.A. and that caused Trump to keep many totally corrupt Obama holdovers.
Mueller Special Counsel was started based on LIES Hillary Clinton bought from Steele in the Steele Dossier and Mueller Special Counsel was CORRUPT and when DOJ Inspector General wanted to look at the phones they all “accidentally” deleted all info on their phones:
Trump is all about dividing, not uniting. That worked well for him at first as he could pick the larger half. The problem is, you can only do that a few times. The more times you divide, the more people who aren’t in 100% agreement, so the Republican party shrinks with each division.
I was out hiking. Missed everything. Oh well.
Nice! Where’d you hike?
Pacifica, CA. 11.5 miles, 2600 ft of elevation gain, time 3:39.
Nap, me.
Beautiful area. I lived in Monterey for a year in ’80.
Tip from the PNW: If you’ve ever got wheels and an afternoon in the Seattle area, Rattlesnake Ledge is the best bang for your buck. Short and quick with a great view.
Cheers.
Biden lost Pennsylvania and all other oil producing states with his getting rid of oil comments which were unbelievably stupid and banning fracking stance that Trump walked Biden into to deny what he had said about ending Fracking which makes Biden a LIAR in many Americans eyes was a huge vote loser both on ending fracking itself but also LYING about it.
Trump also brought up the laptop of Hunter Biden and the CORRUPTION emails and Joe Biden’s denials were like a cornered animal and the switch to attack Trump’s taxes and Chinese bank account of one of Trump’s companies were pathetic and desperate distractions from Joe Biden.
One thing that was not brought up but should have been was that Biden supports sex changes for 8 year old children like Biden stated in his ABC Townhall.
A parent who wants to transition her/his child to a sex change at 8-year old should get a visit from Child Protective Services and have the children taken into care because it is clear that supporting and wanting a sex change for your 8-year old is child abuse and Biden supporting that is PEAK insanity.
How is the weather in Moscow today?
Yeah, we definitely need a Putin’s Corollary.
Both candidates did better than I expected, but my expectations are very low for these two.
Biden was somewhat more lucid, and Trump a little more genial.
In terms of policy substance, both just rattled off disjointed talking points, mostly untrue, unreasonable, far-fetched, crazy, etc.
Virtually nothing realistic or firm.
Final impression (not an American partisan): Bozo meets DumDum
Truly clownesque.
Struggle between who has the most hot air and who is the biggest bag of shit.
I disliked Obama (after being initially positive, when he kept no promises), but he was 6 orders of magnitude above this schoolyard taunt contest in terms of grasping issues.
Good report there. Now I know I didn’t need to watch…..you nailed it for me…and about what I would have expected. Glad I didn’t waste my time.
I had Biden firmly with the win in the election. Trump did quite a bit of damage to Biden tonight. I don’t know how much but in expect polls to tighten.
This one will come down to the wire. I think it could go either way at this point. The question is how much does Biden’s polices scare people? Trump made people stop and think if their hate was enough to vote for higher taxes and more regulation.My hope is for Trump to get re-elected and the Dems to win the senate. Gridlock is the best course.
1/2 the country has already voted.
Biden successfully hid from March through yesterday, while Trump was out there campaigning. Both these guys would have been best served in hiding. Only one accomplished that. In a master move, Obama and Harris were out campaigning all week and Biden hid at home — and nobody said a damn word about that (if Covid is Joe’s excuse, doesn’t that apply to Obama and Harris too?).
This is just 1 night, after 1/2 the people have voted. It probably damaged Biden, but too little, too late. If he’d been out in the public campaigning all October, he might have handed the win to Trump.
Not just the policies and President Harris, which nobody is talking about … I’m convinced Biden will stand down.
Biden is the consummate American politician, telling voters what he thinks they want to hear, while being a corrupt cynical scumbag doing a good job appearing to be a good old guy to sell the interests of the elite by whatever trick works. Biden is consciously choosing more total corruption of the system and giving a free hand to the money, medical, military, and foreign policy elite.
If Dems win the Senate Trump will be impeached within a week making Pence president.
I would vote Senate for Republicans and Trump for President because Nancy Pelosi running House is enough divided government.
Trump will not be impeached for the simple reason Biden will be president
I am interested in whatever legal fallout there will be for Trump, if he loses. My guess is, not much.
Gridlock is good, but it works better with a Democrat President and a Republican Congress. With that, the Republican Congress can pretend it is fiscally prudent, and the Democrat can try to do a good job for the country. Conversely, with a Democrat Congress and a Republican President, Congress pushes for bigger and bigger spending, and the President goes along.
I agree. I would prefer that setup.
As an Australia reader I agree the Biden made a big unforced error on this:
I “would transition from the oil industry” because “the oil industry pollutes significantly”
Trump pounced “Will you remember that, Texas? Will you remember that, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma? Ohio?”
Seems to me to be totally unnecessary gift to Trump.
He lost on both accounts. I won’t ban fracking and I will transition from fossil fuels.
The energy people and the anti-energy people hate those answers.
Biden has promised several times to ban fracking so today when Biden claimed that he does NOT want to ban fracking he made environmentalists mad but he also made everyone think of Biden as a LYING POLITICIAN.
Trump is playing the Biden fracking clips in his rallies:
As an interested observer from UK I have one question: –
Are these two guys really the best candidates you can come up with?
Seem to remember I also asked that question 4 years ago.
And the UK has Boris which really wouldn’t be much improvement….
Our system pretty much guarantees that we elect the worst candidate in our primaries.
The real question is are these the oldest candidates we could find? Bernie says no.
Bernie had a heart attack and a bypass in the Democrat primaries and kept campaigning.
Yes, this election is the US’s Andropov moment. 🙂
One thing if Biden loses the election: The Dems might fix their primary process.
Biden won the primary on name recognition and it was all over in one day. The primary process was a disaster for the Dems, but if Biden wins the election they have no incentive to fix the process. The first party that fixes primaries will have a competitive advantage.
Note that Trump, the R’s Bernie, won the Republican primary in 2016. If he had lost the election, the R’s would have had an incentive to fix their primary process.
From the [DR]NC point of view, Super Tuesday is a mistake. But maybe not for the US.
If Bernie supporters WANT Democrats to fix their primary process the only way to get that to happen is to vote for Trump or stay home so Biden LOSES badly.
“If Bernie supporters WANT Democrats to fix their primary process the only way to get that to happen is to vote for Trump or stay home so Biden LOSES badly.”
Most inciteful thing you’ve said on this blog.
I wrote in Tulsi. Partially for this reason.
Oh Hell No. That Clown shall be fired… wishful thinking…
Yes. The Republican party blocked any real alternative and there were a dozen Democratic contenders. I was in the Bloomberg camp but the party disagreed. Were you involved in the primary? Did you have a preferred candidate that didn’t emerge? Or are you one of those outsides who is uninvolved and simply looks in claiming moral superiority? In 2016 The Republicans had a couple decent candidates, Jeb Bush and Kasich but Trump knows how to play to the camera and low energy Jeb stuck. This had nothing to do with who would really lead better but a one liner defined it. We live in a reality world and Trump was the reality star. Doesn’t seem to work now that Trump has a record though.
All the other Republican Candidates would have LOST to Hillary.
The late American comedian George Carlin is best to use to explain it to our friends across the pond.
In the US, people are so used to the 2-Party system that they don’t even consider alternatives. The result is that they vote for the “lesser of two evils”, meaning, the winner is always evil. Watergate briefly woke up both parties, and what I wouldn’t give to go back to 1976, where the choice was Carter or Ford, two of the nicest men who were ever President.
As they say, “Life is like a septic system. The really big shits rise to the top.”
When you’re seeing is in effect a duopoly- which is setup for ease and to control the masses. They can “pick a side” and not think too deeply about anything. Like a football game.
Normally the party elites control the process but Trump was somewhat of an anomaly obviously. Most importantly though(for the elite), the parties retain power even despite the occasional glitch(like Trump or Perot). In terms of policy, not rhetoric, there’s very little difference in governance on the Federal level for a variety of reasons. (state level being different and you do see more policy differences)
The US as a country could produce much better choices, but the system itself won’t allow it.
A good round of secession/decentralization would go a long way in fixing some things, but that’s only going to come about under a special circumstances that might not be very pretty. (Like a financial reset)
“A good round of secession/decentralization would go a long way in fixing some things”…
One might be inclined to agree with this sentiment, but I believe precedent shows that the republic is effectively ‘Hotel California’.
An economic reset may bring on such an event(see USSR)- but I agree with you outside any unusual circumstances.
Consider that if things back then were more like now, we might have had Agnew for President.
And what if Nixon had had the temperament of Trump. I really shudder to think…..
Agnew was out before Nixon.
In today’s climate, neither Agnew nor Nixon would have resigned. They’d know that if impeached, the GOP Senators wouldn’t vote to remove them, so unless Dems had all 67 votes, they could just suffer through the impeachment process and then resume ruling.
I KNOW Agnew was out before Nixon. He got indicted. My point was that now he probably would NOT have gotten indicted in our modern world.
Nixon was told by the Senate that he was in trouble, and a workout deal was done to let him bow out and get away without the embarrassment of a trial. I doubt Trump would have gone for that.
Ford’s pardon of Nixon was not legal under the Constitution, in my opinion. But when the people at the top are all in agreement, the rules can be bent a little. Good to remember that.
In retrospect, Nixon’s pardon was a good decision. It allowed the country to heal and move one, without the acrimony that a trial would have had. Nixon vanished, and was never heard from again, and his reputation was permanently destroyed. The US moved on, and, for a time, the parties got along reasonably well. Both parties avoided corruption for a long time. Oh, there were bad apples in Carter’s cabinet, and in Reagan’s, but they were not accepted.
Now, a generation later, all those lessons have been forgotten.