Let’s discuss lawfare in Germany and the move to ban Germany’s second most popular party.
In Germany, as happened with Trump in the US, political opponents of AfD want to exclude the party from the next federal elections.
A Move to Ban AfD
Please note German Lawmakers Initiate Process to Ban Far-Right AfD Party. The term “far right” is a media label, that many dispute.
A group of 113 German lawmakers from various factions have signed an application to initiate proceedings to ban the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, public broadcaster ZDF reported on Wednesday.
Marco Wanderwitz, a conservative lawmaker from the center-right CDU, said their application has been submitted to the German parliament’s President Barbel Bas. He emphasized the urgency of the matter, citing the upcoming new election as a critical factor in the timing of this action.
The primary objective is to submit and vote on the application during the current legislative period, potentially enabling the Federal Constitutional Court to commence proceedings, according to the lawmaker.
According to the German constitution, the parliament (Bundestag), the Federal Council (Bundesrat) and the government can apply to the Federal Constitutional Court to ban a party for its anti-constitutional goals or anti-democratic behavior.
In the past, several attempts to ban far-right parties had failed due to legal controversies, lack of objective evidence, or mistakes made in case preparation.
The Federal Constitutional Court turned down an application to ban the far-right NPD party in 2003 on the grounds that some of the party officials used as witnesses were informants of the domestic intelligence agency.
A second attempt to outlaw the NPD also failed in 2017, as the federal judges concluded that the party did not have the potential to realize its anti-constitutional or anti-democratic activities.
The AfD party has significantly increased its vote share in recent years by campaigning against migration, stoking fears of Muslims and immigrants. The party has also benefited from widespread dissatisfaction with Chancellor Olaf Scholz and his coalition government, and fears of an economic downturn.
Will Germany’s Far-Right AfD Party Be Banned?
DW asks Will Germany’s Far-Right AfD Party Be Banned?
Their chance of success is uncertain, but a cross-party group of Bundestag parliamentarians, led by lawmaker Marco Wanderwitz of the center-right Christian Democrats (CDU) is attempting it anyway: On Thursday, 37 lawmakers announced that they would seek to ban the partially right-wing extremist Alternative for Germany (AfD). Together, they represent 5% of parliament — a requirement to take their initiative to the next stage: a parliamentary vote which, if passed, would bring the matter before the Federal Constitutional Court.
“After the terrible rule of the National Socialists [Nazis], it is important to prevent a party which is in large parts right-wing extremist and ethno-nationalist from becoming powerful in Germany again,” said Wanderwitz.
Carmen Wegge, a lawmaker with the center-left Social Democrats (SPD) agrees. “In Germany, democracy has already once been abolished by democratic means, and our continent was plunged into ruin,” she said.
The AfD already has considerable influence. The party has 77 lawmakers in the Bundestag, the lower house of parliament, and it even became the largest party in the eastern state of Thuringia following elections there in September. The AfD also won large shares of the vote in two other eastern states, Saxony and Brandenburg, in elections in September.
The initiators of the current proposal to ban the AfD expect that it will be put to the vote in the Bundestag in December or January. The group includes politicians from the CDU, SPD, Greens and Left parties. Reaching a majority of the 736 lawmakers will take a lot of convincing.
Chancellor Olaf Scholz (SPD) is among the many who are skeptical about whether it is smart to ban the AfD, which is represented in 14 of Germany’s 16 state parliaments, the European Parliament as well as the Bundestag, because simply banning the AfD won’t change its voters’ convictions.
That view is shared by the President of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Josef Schuster. Before the Brandenburg election on September 22, he told the Tagesspiegel daily: “The people who vote for the AfD today will not simply disappear — and we cannot ignore them.” He said he believed a ban was not the way to dissuade AfD voters from their ideology.
On the Move to Ban AfD
Key Comments
- @MalHay: They can see what’s happening in the US & their loss of control is frightening them to death!
- @Styx666Official: Let’s defend freedom by undermining freedom seems to be a common German position.
- @UnusualIrony: Remember when the Nazis banned the SPD in 1933.
- @BlueRunner68: The Germans are doing what they did in the 1930s & again they’ll dress it up as ‘National Socialism’. I thought we’re all supposed to be worried about the mythical ‘Far Right’ these days. Looks like it’s the liberals we need to watch our back for.
- @tesssummers98: This is the only way the Left gain power – by stealing it.
- @goddeketal: BREAKING: Almost all German parties are moving to ban the right-wing @AfD accusing it of violating human dignity and the liberal democratic basic order. Fun fact: the AfD was the only party to oppose Covid measures, while the others knowingly terrorized the general public.
- @SeibtNaomi: Look who’s the real THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY! Now the SPD is scared: What if this helps the AfD win more votes?
Key Observations
- It is not the Leftist SPD party most seeking to get rid of AfD. Rather it’s the center right CDU/CSU that is leading the way.
- Those seeking to ban AfD have the 5 percent threshold to bring it up for a vote.
- The 5 percent threshold has been met. But will a majority of 733 members go along? You can count out 77 members of AfD. SPD has 207 seats. FDP has 91 seats.
- AfD, SPD, and FDP have the votes to block this. But even if it passes, it would still have to clear the German Constitutional Court.
My Guess
The move to ban AfD will either fail in the Bundestag or fail in the Constitutional Court.
If so, the move will backfire making AfD stronger.
Federal Elections
Following the collapse of Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s governing coalition, the next election has been scheduled for Feb. 23, about seven month’s early.
The only coalition that makes any sense is CDU/CSU plus AfD. Add in FDP if you like. Those groups have the most in common.
But all the main parties ruled out cooperating with AfD. Thus, regardless of who wins the next election, there is no coalition that can reach 50 percent that makes any sense.
The more you forcibly try to exclude someone from governing, the more likely they will. That is the message from the US that Germany fails to heed.
Finally, CDU/CSU is the main opposition party in Germany now. It is likely to be AfD after the next election. At a minimum, this will increase AfD’s speaking time in parliament.
Related Posts
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All of the parties rule out an alliance with AfD and BSW. Combined, that is about 26 percent of the total.
The last Grand Coalition (SPD and Union) nearly collapsed and this go around would might not even have a majority. Union is CDU/CSU.
The German and French governments are both nonfunctional.
November 10: Now Germany Has a Green Electricity Outage With Huge Consequences
No sun. No wind. Hello Germany, care to rethink your Green New Deal?
The Greens will never give up on stupid energy policy. FDP may not survive the 5 percent vote threshold to be in parliament.
A Grand Coalition between CDU/CSU and SPD makes no sense.
Nothing makes any sense on ideology except the one thing CDU rules out. And it’s CDU, not the Left, that is leading the charge on AfD.
The default European left, ensconced in the halls of power and the media, have been obsessing over a rerun of history (Hitler) for going on two generations now, convinced that it is only thanks to their vigilance that the fascists are kept at bay and to their perseverance that the existence of nationality is by all means kept submerged.
Lacking all self-awareness, as is true of progressive people everywhere, programmed to believe they are indispensable to pushing humanity forward on the one hand, and on the other impelled by the ‘inevitable’ course of history, any means fair or foul are warranted, blithely unaware that they themselves have become the evil belligerent authoritarians that they fancy fighting
History rhymes; it doesn’t repeat. And like heroes in Greek tragedy, run towards their downfall thinking they are fleeing the prophecy.
Meanwhile France also trying to save democracy.(sarc)
Le Pen Says Prosecutors Are Trying to Block French Voter Options – BNN Bloomberg
“(Bloomberg) — Far-right leader Marine Le Pen accused French prosecutors of interfering with the democratic process after they called for her to be barred from the next presidential election.
The prosecutors have accused Le Pen of embezzling European Union funds to finance party operations in France and on Wednesday recommended that she be banned immediately from public office for five years. That would rule her out of the 2027 race, which she would enter as one of the favorites to succeed President Emmanuel Macron. “
The WEF, currently controlling German politics, is quaking in their boots, hence the AfD must go.
In case you read German: https://rsw.beck.de/aktuell/daily/meldung/detail/vg-koeln-verfassungsschutz-darf-afd-jugend-als-gesichert-extremistisch-einstufen
Just wanted to say that the “far right” of today were the conservatives of the 90s and conservatives of today were the liberals of the 90s
And a reminder, the far right of the 90s shaved their heads and threw rocks at police and blew up buildings. Those that didnt shave their heads wore white hoods.
The left today has blinded themselves from just how far left they have moved. Today marxists openly run for office, and in some countries, have taken power.
The German political system is obviously a mess; banning the AfD is only going to make it messier.
It looks very much like the political establishment in Germany is trying to use the AfD as a scapegoat for their own political and economic incompetence, and trying to preserve a political system that doesn’t work.
When you look at the electoral map of Germany, the AfD is essentially the East Germany party, the part of Germany that endured and survived decades of authoritarianism and the Stasi.
The AfD support is thus grounded in that deep and entirely legitimate resentment of overbearing governance that seems to be the main characteristic of the extremist leftist technocrats, who come across as anything but liberal, just as the regime in the GDR was anything but democratic.
The West Germans seem to have forgotten the lessons of history and forgotten why the Berlin Wall came down.
East Europeans have living memory of political and economic repression, this move to try and ban the main party of East Germany looks aet to backfire spectacularly, with potential existential consequences for the EU, and perhaps even Germany itself.
Authoritarians usually come into power with populist ideas not because they say we want to takeover the state. While the AfD consists of conservatives and a far right wing, the right wing part of the AfD makes it dangerous and far from just another liberal party which wants less government. The far right wing lead by Höcke is dangerous and must never get into power. They have connections to far right groups, Nazis. You do not need to elect the AfD if you want less state, you can just elect FDP or CDU.
“The far right wing lead by Höcke is dangerous..”
But no more so than yahoos so singularly clueless and self righteous that they babble about “democracy”, while at the same time trying to outright ban a party that lots and lots of people want to democratically elect.
Respectfully, I’d disagree. The Merkel-led CDU lost all credibility when it shuttered nuclear reactors & allowed unrestricted migration into Germany.
What type of democracy is it when one bans your political opponent because they want to prioritize what is best for the native inhabitants of Germany. Mass migration is a disaster for Europe.
Politically suspect parties such as the ones ascendant in America and rising in Germany scare people because they are a disturbance of the bland “natural order.”
The “natural order,” which is tame and docile and boring, gets shaken up from time to time as new parties arise to challenge it. But what usually happens is the newcomers get absorbed into the fabric of the nation, as when the radical Republican Party of 1860s became the business-friendly party of the 1900s in the United States.
It looks like the AfD is going to be coopted with the best of them.
You can read more of my writings by going to: dark-dot-sport-dot-blog where -dot- represents a period .
Your writings are not worth reading.
FYI, your ‘natural order’ is the already familiar status quo–long term. People get used to it and don’t want to change, for better or worse, because either involves risk of the unknown.
Change is what causes problems. There are always some early adopters. A rush (growth) as people join the initial enthusiastic crowd, hoping for something better. A mature phase, when the change is no longer perceived–it’s just how things are.
And Decline. Which is where we are right now. The old order became selfish, corrupt… and is failing to do its job.
You have no idea about AfD. AfD is full of Russian assets and Russia friendly people, as well as Chinese assets and China friendly people. Their ideas of EU and NATO are not compatible with CDU/CSU at all. They are much more open for an orientation to Russia and China instead to the West. While the AfD started as a conservative, EU critical, but moderate party, the AfD had been captured by a very far right wing. Many more conservative and moderate members left the AfD because of this radicalization process. Americans never experienced a dictatorship or authoritarian state and they do not have Russia as a permanent threat in the neighborhood, that allows a larger degree of naivety. In Europe, such things are far more serious. We have a history of tyrannical governments and aggressive neighbors, different from peaceful neighbors like Canada and Mexico and two big oceans between everything else.
You are an ignorant moron.
Perhaps the stupidest comment ever posted on this Blog, and that’s saying something.
Absolutely, spot on. Much as I would hate banning a political party, this version of AfD is deadly for all alliances of Germany, EU, NATO etc.
Here’s an idea. If people don’t like it, come up with something BETTER! Don’t ban it.
That worked well in 1933. Hitler has been elected too, but only once until he abolished elections. If authoritarians and fachists are elected into then government, they have a habit to change the state and constitution and limit the opposition in way that you cannot get rid of them anymore.
Why is it against democracy to maximize utility for the natives of Germany by ending this concept that anyone from anywhere has a right to show up uninvited and claim part of the accumulated net assets of Germany which they had no hand in building? Why is mass migration considered a key constituent part of leftist definition of democracy? What can democracy not exist without mass migration? This is ridiculous. The AfD is not talking about lebensraum and invading the bloodlands but simply want to preserve unique German heritage and culture in historical German lands. Nobody is asking China, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Africa to do anything but this too…
“They are much more open for an orientation to Russia and China instead to the West.”
You state that as if it’s a bad thing.
Not that neither Russia nor China are all that, by any absolute metric. But still: Russia has energy and other commodities Germans could use. China makes far and away most of the stuff Germans could use the cheapest and most efficiently. While also serving as a massive potential market for German goods. Both are natural partners for Germany’s highest-end-everything industrial economy.
While, OTOH, “The West” has…… nothing. Aside from a stockpile of bombs. And hence they busy themselves doing the only thing they have any ability to: Foment conflict, bullying and bombing people all over and everywhere.
Not that Russia does not also engage in plenty of that: They’re just like The West now: Lots of bombs from the Cold War era to throw around in order to force others to pay attention to them,and precious little in the way of competitiveness in any other area. BUT: Russia at least has something useful as a counterweight: Lots of cheap energy. While “The West” has nothing.
From a German perspective: “The West” only means German taxpayers being forced to provide ever more subsidies for connected-and-connected-only, inefficient US arms makers. Being “forced”/cajoled into wasting ever higher “percentages” of German so called “GDP to those useless morons. And all the while: Germans get nothing in return. Aside from being dragged into ever more “look at me how tough I am bombing kids on TeeVee!!!” adventures, by otherwise incompetent and bankrupt Anglos too useless to be able contribute anything more valuable than just that.
corporations have come out publicly stating that they intend to raise prices in anticipation of Trump Tariffs. https://www.businessinsider.com/companies-raising-prices-trump-tariffs-inflation-goods-getting-more-expensive-2024-11
Translation: they intend to blame their incompetence at making their companies profitable on Trump, whilst they throw the staff under the bus with layoffs, and secure their own retirement packages to a level where they can continue to donate to Democrats at the expense of the working classes. [Slow hand clap]
There was a time when people wrote letters to the editor of newspapers using their real names. Nowadays, very few people use their real names, including here. Mr. Shedlock may be the only person, which says a lot..
Ever wonder why this anonymity is happening at such a scale?
1) It takes guts (maybe foolhardiness) to put your name out there in public nowadays.
2) We really do not have freedom of speech, and haven’t had it for a while. We are fearful of what might happen if our identities are known.
3) We do not want to be held responsible for what we say.
4) We falsely represent ourselves
There may be other issues.
Political repercussions
Political repression.
Did you know the “letters to the paper” were often made up and written by the journalists themselves when they wanted to generate interest in a subject?
Or more importantly, those letters simply confirmed the point of view the editors were trying to make!
Free, democratic Germany. Lol. Yeah, no. Like the rest of Europe for the most part. Like during the Biden Admin here, and before that. Really since 2014, when the globalist neocon cabal started stirring the pot.
Reminds me of a dinner conversation I had with a former German colleague, a well-educated scientist. The conversation turned to immigration, and when I began lamenting the flood of illegal immigrants into the US, he checked me and said, at least they are primarily Christian. In Germany, we are being besieged by Muslims.
They are from the countries West make poor and wars.
Maybe share this with the gangs coming from Venezuela. They need to try harder.
Exklusivität ist die Zuflucht den Schuften.
!! Deutschland verdient Exklusivität, um den Schurken keinen Zufluchtsort zu bieten.
Why must the left try to censor everyone they disagree with? The world over the same disease.
Liberalism is a hive disease.
Not unlike Islam.
Humans, regardless of race, sex, religion, national origin etc, have always needed someone to hate. Right hates Left, as much as Straight hates Gay, as much as…
Desperation as their coalition evaporates. Democracy is now their enemy. This tactic will fail. Even if it wins it will fail.
In order to save democracy we have to destroy it
The CDU supporters of the ban see the AfD as their direct competitor so the SPD, Grünen and other left parties may see an advantage to dividing the right wing vote. Surprised that Mish did not mention that Wanderlitz a key pusher of the ban lost his direct mandate election to the AfD candidate but entered the Bundestag anyway via the Saxon CDU list. “Bei der Bundestagswahl 2021 verlor er im Bundestagswahlkreis Chemnitzer Umland – Erzgebirgskreis II sein Direktmandat mit 23,7 Prozent der Erststimmen gegen den Kandidaten der AfD Mike Moncsek, der 28,9 Prozent der Erststimmen erhielt, zog jedoch über die Landesliste Sachsen seiner Partei wieder in den Bundestag ein.”
“The term “far right” is a media label, that many dispute.”
The term is meant to be a smear. I hardly ever hear the media say far left or even left wing, in reference to political figures, as the media is leftist.
CNBC announced RFJ Jr. is to be nominated to be HHS Secretary, using the smear “conspiracy theorist” to dismissively refer him as. Haven’t watched CNBC in some time, but i presume they run a lot of Big Pharma ads. A lot of money is at stake for special interests.
A correct answer. You’re right! Natural law which may or may not be codified in law. Human rights. The protection of individual citizens from governmental abuse enshrined in the constitution. The Bill of Rights. Hmmm. When I surf I like to go left, but other than that, I was brought up properly to defend my freedoms and those of others. To defend and uphold our rights. Left, work of the devil. Its a metaphor, but quite accurate.
They only want to name-call sworn enemies. It works. Look at the usage of HITLER and FASCIST in the past months.
Yeah, that worked.
No, it is a kind of official result of an investigation of the Verfassungsschutz ( German domestic intelligence agency) at least for two of their local branches in two states.
The US congress has 435 representatives + 100 senators for a population of ~335 million.
The German Bundestag has 733 members for a population of ~85 million.
A US representative of the people is 5.3 times more efficient than the German one, not counting German members of Euro parliament in Strasbourg.
Some of the useless eaters, completely lacking in self-reflection, are pointing fingers at others.
I would rather we had a representative for every 30,000 voters.
It would be a city unto itself. I suggest that we make it a Saturn (Planet) Settlement and they can report from Space every 24 months.
Plenty of gas there.
More gravy for those dumplings.
Saturday 9 November 2024 Board member: Christine Lagarde
Participation by Ms Lagarde in closing event “Climate risks, adaptation and mitigation:
what do central banks make of their economic effects?” at Green Swan Conference 2024
“Impact of climate change on the real economy:what does it mean for business and for monetary policy?” co-organized by Bank for International Settlements, Bank of Japan, Bank of Spain and networking for greening the Financial System in Basiel, Switzerland
So in the meantime Germany experiencing power shortages as their industrial base contracts.
But this is Europe in a nutshell.
Nothing better for those in power to ban their opponents. What’s not to like about that? (sarc)
Doesn’t Germany stand for democracy? “Let’s ban political opponents and free speech…time for a good old book burning on the town square”
Hoot of the Day award.
There’s no limit to the amount of stupidity in these partisan games.