Fed Chair Jerome Powell’s speech on October 19 to the Economic Club of New York is more than a bit amusing. Let’s tune in. 
On October 19, Fed Chair Powell gave a Speech to the Economic Club of New York.
Somehow, they failed to invite me to ask questions. I am sure this oversight will be corrected next time and I have some doozies.
Anyway, the session was interesting despite me not being there to ask questions.
Forex Live reports Q&A from Fed Powell: Economy is very resilient and growing strongly
Comment Clips
- No precision in understanding monetary policy lags.
- Markets have been front running Fed policy changes.
- Household savings are higher, spending has been higher.
- We should be seeing effects of monetary policy arriving
- Fed has slowed on rates to give policy time to work.
- There is a lot of uncertainty on lags
- It is very hard to know how economy can grow with higher rates
- By any reckoning, neutral rates ebbed over recent decades, unsure where it is now
- Models useful but have to look at what the economy is telling us
- With hindsight possible Fed could have done less during pandemic
- Bond yield rise doesn’t seem to be about expectations of Fed doing more on rates
- Is unclear if bond yield rise will be persistent, markets are volatile.
- We will let market yield rise play out, Fed will watch it.
That’s an abbreviated set of clips from Forex Live notes.
In Hindsight, It’s Possible
Well, no it wasn’t because the Fed never learns from mistakes.
And note that hindsight isn’t 20-20 because Powell said didn’t say “should have“.
Fed Uncertainty Principle in Action
Powell’s speech and subsequent Q&A is a beautiful example of my all-time favorite post, Fed Uncertainty Principle, written April 3, 2008, before the collapse of Lehman and Bear Stearns.
Does the Fed Follows the Market?
Most think the Fed follows market expectations.
However, this creates what would appear at first glance to be a major paradox: If the Fed is simply following market expectations, can the Fed be to blame for the consequences? More pointedly, why isn’t the market to blame if the Fed is simply following market expectations?
This is a very interesting theoretical question. While it’s true the Fed typically only does what is expected, those expectations become distorted over time by observations of Fed actions.
The Observer Affects The Observed
The Fed, in conjunction with all the players watching the Fed, distorts the economic picture. I liken this to Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle where observation of a subatomic particle changes the ability to measure it accurately.
The Fed, by its very existence, alters the economic horizon. Compounding the problem are all the eyes on the Fed attempting to game the system. [See Powell’s admission above about the market front-running the Fed]
What happened in 2002-2004 was an observer/participant feedback loop that continued even after the recession had ended. The Fed held rates rates too low too long. This spawned the biggest housing bubble in history. The Greenspan Fed compounded the problem by endorsing derivatives and ARMs at the worst possible moment.
The Fed has so distorted the economic picture by its very existence that it is fatally flawed logic to suggest the Fed is simply following the market therefore the market is to blame. There would not be a Fed in a free market, and by implication there would be no observer/participant feedback loop.
Fed Uncertainty Basic Principle: The fed, by its very existence, has completely distorted the market via self-reinforcing observer/participant feedback loops. Thus, it is fatally flawed logic to suggest the Fed is simply following the market, therefore the market is to blame for the Fed’s actions. There would not be a Fed in a free market, and by implication, there would not be observer/participant feedback loops either.
Corollary Number One: The Fed has no idea where interest rates should be. Only a free market does. The Fed will be disingenuous about what it knows (nothing of use) and doesn’t know (much more than it wants to admit), particularly in times of economic stress.
Corollary Number Two: The government/quasi-government body most responsible for creating this mess (the Fed), will attempt a big power grab, purportedly to fix whatever problems it creates. The bigger the mess it creates, the more power it will attempt to grab. Over time this leads to dangerously concentrated power into the hands of those who have already proven they do not know what they are doing.
Corollary Number Three: Don’t expect the Fed to learn from past mistakes. Instead, expect the Fed to repeat them with bigger and bigger doses of exactly what created the initial problem.
Corollary Number Four: The Fed simply does not care whether its actions are illegal or not. The Fed is operating under the principle that it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission. And forgiveness is just another means to the desired power grab it is seeking.
Irony Abounds
All of that was written prior to the collapse of Lehman.
Former Fed Chair Ben Bernanke call the collapse of Lehman his biggest failure. Ironically, it was the only thing he ever did right.
Capitalism must have failures to succeed.
Instead we have gone through three massive bubbles caused by Fed distortions with the market front running the Fed all the way creating bubbles and busts of increasing amplitude over time.
How the Fed Destroyed the Housing Market and Created Inflation in Pictures
We have the strangest housing bubble in history with rising prices and crashing transactions.
By my calculations based on wages vs prices, home prices are roughly 46 percent too high. If you prefer, home prices would need to fall roughly 31 percent.
For discussion, please see How the Fed Destroyed the Housing Market and Created Inflation in Pictures
Now Powell says the Fed “could have” done something when it’s damn clear the Fed has no idea what it’s doing at all.
What a hoot!


Mish,
I was wondering whether you could do a follow-up article with Lacy Hunt’s take on the next 6-24 months of monetary policy, economic predictions and such.
I understand the two of you go way back.
He’s done some wonderful videos with Danielle DiMartino-Booth and he never fails to impress me.
Thank you.
Draining the RRP facility is like concealed Greenbacking reconstituted.
Mises has it right:
“The definition of M2 includes money market securities, mutual funds, and other time deposits. However, an investment in a mutual fund is in fact an investment in various money market instruments. The quantity of money is not altered as a result of this investment; the ownership of money has only changed temporarily. Hence, including mutual funds as part of M2 results in the double counting of money.”
mises is the best website hands down for central bank and inflation analysis. their conferences are wonderful, too.
human action is a must read for anyone who wants to understand inflation and history of said money and people…………
In this real estate cycle we have something we didn’t have in the previous ones, namely an enormous amount of foreign capital looking for a safe asset in a safe place. Since prices are determined at the margin, that capital has an outsized impact. When that flow stops, and it will, prices will collapse. Smart money would be selling to them and buying it back much cheaper later. It has happened before in the 1980’s.
In NYC right now, the Foreigners make up the majority of sales I do believe, or damn close to it. While that money still flows, the old NYC buyers are divesting away from the rat hole! New local money has always been tied to income/jobs so that has all but vanished as well. I would have to agree for that City I would be selling out right now if I had CRE especially, as well as any recent buyers that can cut bait. Long time before valuations come back there, as the mess that will need cleaning up will take a decade alone…
And people sitting on there properties to keep their cheap mortgages. Rumblings is the Airbnb landscape should hopefully help out on the inventory front.
properties dropping in very high end, 20million plus, and in working and lower working……….here in gotham……….
I’m not as worried about a foreign inflow stoppage as I am about a flow reversal.
It became “damn clear” to me that Powell had no idea what he is doing when he made this statement on 06/29/22:
“I think we now understand better how little we understand about inflation”
That was for public consumption. Any idiot knows that printing up $trillions and throwing it at the economy would result in higher prices. Economics ain’t rocket science. It’s kabuki theater where banksters masquerade as the Great Oz.
Gosh golly ! You would think that with a historical record of 300 years of interest rates and all of those PHD’s that they could figure out that the norm is around 4-6% and that lowering them to an unprecedented 2% would kick start consumer inflation and asset inflation. They were so far behind the curve that I would call them incompetent. A private company would have gone bankrupt with such forecasting. Also, I believe that the arm’s length relationship between the political and banking systems is damaged. A competent banker would have never done this. Thanks Greenspan, Bernanke, Yellen and now Powell. I miss Paul Volcker.
volcker cranked up rates, alsmost 20 years, after the 1965 silver default and guns and butter……we gotta long way to go, in fits and starts and we are much weaker in mind, body and national infrastructure and profits………………….the nit wits will be watching sports. and entertainment and be ok with a loaf of bread a day. panem et circenses. nothong more isneeded for nit wits.serfs,employees and gov pensioners……..
Powell can’t tighten!
You must have heard the term:
“Righty, Tighty; Lefty, Loosy”
I was told that applied to Politicians by my Grandpappy, so are you telling me He was incorrect in his understanding?
there are no righty or lefties………anymore. just one big uniparty of imperial war mongering spend and steal and grift and make billions off MIC etc………….the idiot amerikans are nihilists, as are their leaders…………….crumbling evil empire 101. gold guns and getaway. getaway before you need your gun. don’t buy anything you cannot run with……..
Powell is no Paul Volcker And the debt situation today is far worse Of course they could hike more aggressively and crash the everything bubble quicker but it looks like they will opt for hyperinflation
Debt deflation means the government loses power. Without money, they can’t pay anyone and they lose all power and authority. Thus, they must print money and inflate. If one looks at Wiemar Germany there where episodes of extreme inflation and deflation. The central bankers always try to steer it down the middle but the system is so unstable it flops from one to the other. Either way the vast majority of people will get much poorer. Tough waters to navigate, especially if you’re a retiree with your life’s savings at risk. I like Gerald Celente’s recipe: gold guns and a get away plan!
I don’t blame him. He’s actually intelligent and sound but what can you do working for feeble minded idiots? Not much. What is he going to do? Scream stop printing paper? NO. He would get fired. If someone pays me to say printing money is fine then sure. I will do it. By the time it eventually blows up I will be long gone or well off. Why would I care. I would not and neither would anyone else. Print away. Hope it doesn’t implode before you die.
Something / someone will be Mrs O’Leary’s Cow, but it won’t be Powell.
But, but , but Yellenstain said there will be economic crisis in her lifetime which isn’t very reassuring for so many reasons
Corollary 1-4 = -3
In all seriousness, ever increasing exponential factors in quadrant 1, is the sole purpose of the FED.
Deflation, quadrant 4, is indeed the evil empire as far as the FED is concerned.
Powell is just an academic who’s in charge of smoke and mirrors for the Federal Reserve which serves only the interests of the banks (and its owners). It’s a legalized criminal racket.
If the U.S. was serious about combating inflation, it would stop the deficit spending. The Fed can “tighten money policy” all it wants, but if we’re running $2 trillion deficits it doesn’t matter.
I have actually learned to love the Fed. For example, the moment they started raising interest rates I knew TLT would tank and this week it’s reach an all time low (like 20 year low) and I’m taking advantage of the Fed’s actions by slowly loading up. I also felt/knew that stocks would eventually tank so I positioned with some PUTS for January 2024 expiry on home builders and XHB. I was worried my puts may become worthless but I learned that the Fed and JPOW won’t ever let me down because they want to crash the economy.
So the Fed or geo-political events will break something and then the Fed will likely be forced to cut rates sending TLT back up, maybe to the moon and I will profit accordingly.
People can spend their time hating or whining about the Fed but I prefer to simply position for profit from the Fed’s actions. It’s how I like to spend my time and why I’m here. how can I profit from the Fed’s next move? It’s been working wondrously so thanks for everyone that keeps an eye on the Fed for me.
Choo! Choo! everyone, the money train is leaving the station (again)…..
Agree. I am here for the same reason; to gather info that helps me improve my life financially. And to tell people what I am investing in and why, in case they would like to do something similar.
Its up to others to decide if they wish to follow any of the advice that both you and I give freely. A few folks here seem to appreciate our investment commentary, but many would rather cliticize us, or simply get back to their constant whining and complaining.
Papa simply out of curiosity, do you follow, or even care about, the so called “Pelosi Stock Watch” I have heard about? Your thoughts are appreciated!
I have not looked at it in the least, but I am out of stocks and have been for quite a bit. I still invest a lot, but just not in stocks. Just curious if you thought is was something to look at.
Thanks!
Stu
I have heard of it. I do not follow it. Is she currently heavily invested in oil stocks?
There is also a House Stock Watcher for all representatives. I don’t follow that either.
There are also stock trackers for celebrities and investment “gurus”. Etc etc.
I suspect that if you did follow everyone else’s investments you would discover that everyone makes mistakes.
I continue to invest in stocks because I continue to achieve decent returns. If my returns were lousy, I would probably look for other things to invest in.
I sort of thought you might say something like that. I have not looked at any of them for the same reasons, and you just confirmed, for me anyway, why that’s been a good choice.
As I get a bit older and about a year before Covid I started pulling back from stocks (as luck would have it mind you, as it was simply a personal decision). I instead turned to an assets and liquidity portfolio, which has done me well, so no complaints.
My assets secure me a life of care, and a roof over my head until then, and travel to free destinations and the like. My liquidity helps with the bumps along the way.
Thanks again, and I wish you well out there.
Choo choo this
agree 100%. i despise the fed, as a destroyer of so many middlebrow lives, and wish Ron Paul had been president to End the FED(i have a signed copy of that wonderful book, very realistic, too), but i face reality of what is the fed about, keeping the NYC bankers solvent and alive at all costs. so we try and profit from this situaiton we have. like Papa and MPO say, i agree. choo choo
“Bond yield rise doesn’t seem to be about expectations of Fed doing more on rates
Is unclear if bond yield rise will be persistent, markets are volatile.
We will let market yield rise play out, Fed will watch it.”
In other words no more QE and they’re going to let the market find a fair/neutral yield curve.
It’s only the belief that the Fed will rescue markets in the hour of need that has tempered price falls in markets to date, and here they are inferring they’re going to let them truly float.
Over the past year or so, the Fed has done more or less what it indicated, despite market doubters.
To me a 2.5% real yield for 5 years seems reasonable but a real yield of 2.55% for 30 year risk? You’d need to be fairly confident of a fall in inflation or an ongoing buyer of Term Treasuries to take that on. Pension Funds maybe or The Fed, but the latter has ruled themselves out for the time being.
Hey Jerome Blockhead, how about NOT BUYING $1 WORTH OF MORTGAGE BACKED SECURITIES?
I am absolutely not surprised he didn’t mention MBS at all. Powell was on record long before 2020 moaning about the lack of inflation and how the Fed would let inflation ‘run hot’ when it finally did happen.
When it comes to seeing inflation, the Fed makes Mr. Magoo appear to have hawk like vision. I believe the Fed only addressed the inflation conflagration when it finally dawned on them that the Fed member banks would be flush with currency of lesser value than Monopoly money if they didn’t act.
“Corollary Number Three: Don’t expect the Fed to learn from past mistakes. Instead, expect the Fed to repeat them with bigger and bigger doses of exactly what created the initial problem.”
Which virtually guarantees that Congress will do the same by stepping in and flushing a ton of money down the drain, most importantly to prop up housing via rent & mortgage relief.
I seriously doubt that in the next 10-15 years, despite ample need, Congress will allow there to be foreclosures anywhere near the rate we saw from 2008 – 2010.
It’s just not going to happen, so housing for many, many years to come will remain in bubble land.
High prices and no transactions. You think the Fed would let real estate industry including brokers, lenders, inspectors, appraisers etc. etc. die off instead?
No I don’t think so
like he admitted… Powell does not even understand what he says. Why don’t we elect De Santis and let him fire this F—er?
why not mickey and goofy ?
the fed has only one goal. to keep her owners, the NYC banks that created her, in high cotton. the rest is pure rubbish. someday i have confidence Mish will come around.
inflation is only a monetary phenomenon. the prices of things from homes to hookers, has so many other factors going on. supply, demand, popularity, plague lockdowns……….
Inflation is too low (only 26 years to double prices and math is hard)
Inflation is transitory.
Holy chit, higher for longer.
— Your smartest team
Inflation is too low (only 26 years to double prices, and math is hard).
Inflation is transitory.
Holy chit, higher for longer.
— Your smartest team.
going to be a helluva hangover sooner or later.
Gee Whiz Batman, who hires these morons…You keep the party going with ultra low interest rates, there is going to be a helluva hangover sooner or later.
Nothing to worry about Robin, It is only devaluing currency.
“We have the strangest housing bubble in history with rising prices and crashing transactions.”
Not strange, if we postulate that we have an upper class crack-up boom.
Maybe something as simple as removing Powell, would have prevented the “Inflation Rise” from occurring in the first place?
Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda, is Our Government Fall Back…
Powell had additional excuses:
A big dog ate our papers
Things did not go according to plan because we had no plan
We discovered a growing list of subjects we knew nothing about.
Trump and MAGA’s caused the inflation.
The Russians caused the inflation.
Inflating prices caused inflation
Blame the big corporations for raising prices.
The good news is M2 money supply growth shows consumer price inflation is under control now and no longer a problem. Never mind those big price hikes in 2021 and 2022 — they are permanent.
Year over year, the CPI is up 3.7%. Excluding shelter costs, which are artificially inflated by BLS methodology, the CPI is up only 2.0%.
“who hires these morons”
Who says what they’re doing in motivated by stupidity rather than malice? Do you really think they give a wet slap about YOU, or are working in the least for YOUR interests? The people that actually “matter” will be just fine.
Mish: housing prices need to drop 31%
FED: so we have devalued the fiat $dollar 30% in 2023
Observation: So this means the current ‘price’ now has the value of 31% decrease
given our WORTH LESS fiat $dollar
I read where an accounting gimmick for the Inflation Reduction Act / Student Loan forgiveness that never took effect reduced the FY ’23 deficit by about $400B, meaning it’s really $2.1T which makes sense. We borrowed nearly $850B just in the 3rd quarter, while total revenue for the year dropped $457B mainly due to a drop in capital gains taxes. Here’s an interesting Treasury URL that shows the interest expense has doubled since July 2016.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/data/A091RC1Q027SBEA.txt
It was $910B annualized at the end of Q2. The Q3 number should drop in the next week or so. Recent quarterly trends suggest $950B annualized isn’t out of the question. As I’ve been saying over the last couple of months, this time next year will very ugly. There’s $7T in bonds maturing in the next 12 months. Higher for longer will ensure our debt expense continues to rise to unprecedented levels.
“who hires these morons”
Noone who is not a moron, would ever take a job in an institution whose entire existence is predicated on acting in any other way than moronically.
There is no way to debase people’s money in “good” way. No “good” vs “bad” pure theft. The entire project simply can not be anything but bad, no matter what and who. Anyone not recognising that, at the latest by undergrad college; simply can not ever be anything other than a moron, no matter what.