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Question of the Day – How Fast Will the Shift to EVs happen?

The Wall Street Journal notes The EV Question for Auto Executives: How Fast to Make the Shift?

  • Volvo: “We don’t want to risk missing the market,” Volvo Car VOLCAR.B 0.63%increase; green up pointing triangle AB Chief Executive Jim Rowan said during an earnings call this month. The Swedish auto maker is among those seeking to rapidly evolve into an electric-only manufacturer, saying it will offer an all-EV lineup by 2030. Last year, 11% of Volvo’s vehicle sales were electric.
  • FordFord has said it expects half of its vehicle sales to be fully electric by the end of the decade. 
  • GM: GM is targeting 2035 as the phaseout of internal-combustion-engine sales for all but its heaviest vehicles.
  • Toyota: The world’s largest auto maker by vehicle sales, has been earmarking less money than its rivals toward development of fully electric models. It instead wants to offer an array of choices, including its specialty, hybrid vehicles, which combine a gas engine with a small battery and electric motor to save fuel. 
  • Jeep: Carlos Tavares, chief executive of Stellantis NV, the maker of the Jeep and Ram brands, has been similarly hesitant about racing ahead too fast. In particular, he has raised concerns about regulators pushing car companies to convert to battery-powered cars too quickly, and has said that a potential shortage of raw materials needed for the batteries to produce enough EVs could cause the industry to fall short.
  • EU: Last week, European Union lawmakers approved a law that will effectively ban sales of gasoline- and diesel-powered vehicles starting in 2035. 
  • California: California has set the same phaseout 2035 date. 

If You Mandate It, Will It Happen? When?

California and the EU have mandates. 

If enough minerals are not readily available at reasonable prices, the cost of batteries will skyrocket. 

If infrastructure is not in place people will hold on to their existing cars. 

As the 2029 and 2034 target dates approach, I would not be surprised by enormous demand for non-EVs if either the price of EVs is too high or the infrastructure is not sufficient. 

If buyers are reluctant, Ford will not hit its 50 percent target by 2030 or it will go bankrupt doing so. 

Questioning the 2035 Date

Mike Manley, chief executive of AutoNation Inc., a publicly traded dealership group, said auto executives have been talking more with dealers over the past year about what the pace of the EV transition should be. It isn’t an easy answer, he said, because there is uncertainty about the pace with which consumers will warm to battery-powered vehicles.

In addition to supply of minerals and infrastructure issues, politics comes into play. 

2035 is sufficiently far enough away that no one can say what will happen or is even likely. 

Politics of the Matter

Who will win the 2024 election? 

If Democrats with the House, Senate, and White House in the 2024 election, then expect the 2035 target date to hold, no matter what problems transpire. Spending, subsidies, and penalties for noncompliance will soar. 

If Republicans win the White House, expect most or all of Biden’s mandates to be tossed out the window. 

If Republicans win the trifecta, it will set back the transition by at least four years. 

EV Transition is Highly Inflationary

Regardless of who wins, the path towards EVs is set.

And regardless of who wins, that path is inflationary. The quicker the path, the faster the necessary expenditures and subsidies.

Utilities will have to expand and upgrade. Expect higher electricity costs, much higher. 

One of the selling points of EVs right now is that they are cheaper over the long haul.

Will EVs be cheaper if the costs of batteries and electricity soar? 

Without Subsidies, How Many People Will Buy an EV?

Here is another question: Without Subsidies, How Many People Will Buy an EV?

Sales in Germany plunged after subsidies were reduced.

A Mad Rush to Build More EV Factories, But Where are the Minerals?

As long as we are asking questions, A Mad Rush to Build More EV Factories, But Where are the Minerals?

  • Brookings on Nickel: Indonesia’s nickel sector is particularly carbon-intensive and environmentally damaging. This creates an awkward challenge for EV manufacturers, who are under pressure to manage environmental, social, and governance (ESG) issues in their supply chains, including carbon emissions. Some EV manufacturers have expressed a preference for “low-carbon” nickel. However, the supply of “low-carbon” is insufficient to meet forecasted demand, and it comes with a higher price tag.
  • Convenience.Org on Cobalt: Cobalt has the most supply risks, as it has a highly concentrated production and limited reserves. There are not many producers of cobalt, with a single company producing one-third of the world’s annual supply, and 65% of cobalt coming from a single country.

Please click on the above link. It’s a pretty damning assessment of allegedly “clean” energy. 

Environmental, social, and governance (ESG) investing is an outright scam. 

Environment Police Want to Reduce Car Ownership Because EVs Are Not Enough

For the sake of climate justice, transit justice, environmental justice, and Indigenous justice, the environment police want to reduce car ownership by making EV cars travel less before a charge.

For discussion, please consider Environment Police Want to Reduce Car Ownership Because EVs Are Not Enough

Don’t kid yourself.

This vision is precisely what President Biden, the socialists, and the Marxists want. If you want the same thing, then vote for Democrats in 2024.

I do not have the answer to my lead question, and no one else does either because we cannot predict how stupid the politics of this setup will become.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

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138 Comments
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Call_Me
Call_Me
3 years ago
It has taken quite a while now, what’s another decade or two?
I’m still curious what would happen to all of the gasoline that is produced but no longer burned up in ICEs. Presuming everyone keeps using petroleum-based plastics (there is a better target for prohibition, in my opinion), there would be a lot of byproduct from the refining process that will need a new destination.
Call_Me_Al
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
EVs are a ecological disaster in the making ….
DavidC
DavidC
2 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2

Baloney. The Fossil Fuels Industry is the most polluting, destructive and War inducing industry humans have ever created. Time to get off the BIG OIL Addiction. The largest use for OIL and Gasoline is Ground Transportation. As that goes away, OIL becomes unnecessarily expensive and OPEC+ loses more and more power to wreck economies.

Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Every time I read about cars without ICEs being mandated I think about all the American cars lovingly maintained in Cuba.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
There’s a much bigger and more important elephant in this room.
As exemplified by Big tobacco and mass cancer deaths, big banks and the ’08 crisis, Pharma and the opioid epidemic – oil companies, the Koch family, have suppressed competition and growth for decades via campaign funded bribery and mass disinformation.
tractionengine
tractionengine
3 years ago
Pretty soon, and who knows the timing, there will be no point in owning a car. Humans are clearly not up to the job of driving safely and when all cars are connected wirelessly to each other, there will finally be no need traffic lights or signs – or drivers. The accident statistics will speak for themselves and the public will not be permitted to drive. You can whine all you like and bitch about loss of liberty but you have no right to risk maiming or killing me when there’s a simple and sensible alternative. And the government will love it! (I’m not sure I will.)
The technology has a way to go but the result is inevitable. This will dramatically reduce the need for car and battery manufacturing along with services such as insurance – very deflationary.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  tractionengine
My uncle has a country place, that no one knows about…
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
A brilliant Red Barchetta, by any chance?
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  tractionengine
“Humans are clearly not up to the job of driving safely”
Is this an attempt at brainwashing, or the result of brainwashing? Go watch an “ancient” Steve McQueen movie. The vast majority of people could drive like that. The excessive helicopter mommies and nanny state devices have taken away people’s natural abilities.
DavidC
DavidC
2 years ago
Reply to  JeffD

Nah, doing foolish things like texting and driving are causing a huge number of accidents. Distracted driving causes more accidents than drunk driving.

Nodak1
Nodak1
3 years ago
Reply to  tractionengine
WOW! you are way ahead, like those that said we would have self driving semis by now 2-3 years ago,
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
One other piece of the puzzle to consider is drone cars via subscription. By 2050 or sooner drone fleets will roam cities delivering people point to point, summoned by cell phone. As available as a NY taxi. Recharge overnight outside of town. Car utilization will go up 10x, as today cars sit in a driveway or parking lot 22 hours per day. Your car subscription will be $75 per month versus $800 per month for owning. At $250 or $300 per month, mass adoption will start.
That means resources will not be as much of an issue. Massively deflationary. Fewer cars to build, idle real estate (parking garages), less fuel needed of any type.
Rural areas with long distances to drive between points won’t change so much though. Rich will hold on to their cars for privacy and convenience. Millennials will be first adopters. If it doesn’t come about via market forces, it will be mandated is my guess. Drive to LA county and leave your car at the border and taxi in.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
How is that any different than the way uber or taxis work now? And yet people still own their own car.
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Uber is the precursor for the hailing system. When they own the fleets it will have customized scheduling, so for your commute the car is sitting waiting for you every morning. I am guessing that Uber will convert to owning cars and get out from under managing drivers and employment regs. On top of that, each manufacturer will offer subscription service – Transportation as a Service. Segmented by quality of vehicle and other service promises.
Economics is always the driving force. For a short regular commute and weekend trips, Uber costs more than owning a car now. We anticipate a 70% cost reduction over owning a car outright. Who doesn’t want $6,000 or more per year in after-tax cash to spend?
Progressives will also mandate this as a green initiative – in big cities first.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
Won’t happen until Spacely Sprockets merges with Cogswell Cogs.
DavidC
DavidC
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn

Fraction of the price of Uber. And many people aren’t buying vehicles. Many young people are not even getting their licenses.

JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
Hate to tell you this, but car utilization has always been 100%, right up until the day the car dies due to irrepairability.
Cars currently operate in the most efficient mode possible. They are only consuming energy if at least one person is in the car, moving from point A to B, where they then turn off the car and get out.
If drones are contantly roaming around empty part of the time as you apparently dream about, you will need more of them on the road at all times, increasing congestion, and wearing down the car in the process, meaning it will generate wastse heat and electricity, and fill the landfill after a less efficient usage lifetime, going against every green initiative you have been brainwashed to believe.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
PS The only people that benefit from your “drone fleet” are (1) the energy companies that get to sell more energy to power the cars that drive around empty, and (2) the car companies who have to build more cars to account for all the empty cars out there driving from point C to D to recharge or pick someone up (while wearing themselves down) in addition to the cars filled with people moving from point A to B. All this, while people are stuck in traffic due to all the extra congestion caused by empty cars on the road, having a worse life than pre-drone.
And cars wirely communicating won’t fix the congestion, which you would know, if you’ve ever been stuck in traffic during rush hour in a large city, which you obviously haven-t. San Francisco’s financial district pre-pandemic is my best personally experienced example of there just not being enough roads to carry all the cars containing all the people that want to get home during peak rush hour.
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
Your point about matching supply and demand and empty vehicles has merit and is being considered in the economic models. The presentation I saw counted that loss to be small since vehicles would be near the demand points. Maybe that is an error.
The plans being made are based on utilization of capital. If the typical car owner drives two hours per day, at least six people can share a car and the fleet can be reduced by well more than half, freeing up billions of dollars to be spent elsewhere. Freeing up car factories and real estate as parking garages get converted to other uses. Fewer accidents, which you may not agree with, which lowers insurance costs.
I do worry about congestion and that is a reason to always own at least one car. If there is a hurricane, flood or fire, I would not want to be stuck waiting for my ride. Not sure about downtown rush hour, but I would expect marginal improvement, maybe mandated ride sharing to reduce the number of vehicles.
This is a long term vision being invested in right now. Sometimes they happen, sometimes not. If vehicles are modular, more reliable and lives can be extended like airplanes, I believe the economics are fait accompli on this one. And that is why it is attracting capital.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
Again, you are totally missing the point, because you want to shoehorn what I just said into your narrative. My work once tried to “be efficient” by using a model similar to what you outline here. We all lived within a few miles of each other, so work hired one taxi to pick all four of us up and take us to the airport. We padded an extra half hour into the schedule to do that. Well, it ended up taking an hour and half to pick up those people in spite of every one of them being ready and waiting when the taxi pulled up. We ultimately had to cut in line at the airport not to miss our flights. These “drone fleet” plans all sound good on paper, but in the real world they just don’t pan out. Not only are they more wasteful, but they put more constraints on people rather than resulting in more convenience.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
“If the typical car owner drives two hours per day”
How long the person uses the car each day has nothing to do with the utilization of capital. You ignored what I said entirely. The capital gets used 100% in my scenario and your scenario, since the car is used from the day it comes off the car lot until the day it can no longer be repaired. The difference is that in my scenario, the car is used at 100% efficiency and in your model, much less than 100% efficiency because (1) the car is driving itself around empty and (2) the empty cars are causing unnecessary congestion. If you can’t understand what I am saying, I can’t help you.
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
I did not miss your point.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
“If the typical car owner drives two hours per day, at least six people can share a car and the fleet can be reduced by well more than half, freeing up billions of dollars to be spent elsewhere. Freeing up car factories”
Man, you have been brainwashed good. You toatally ignored what I said. Not only would we need to build all the cars we have as of today (that are occupied by people going from point A to B), but *additional* cars to account for the new cars that will be driving around empty on their way to recharge or pick someone up. Turn off the brainwash narrative and use your thinking mind to parse what I just said.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
Look guy, this model you outline benefits three parties,
(1) car manufacturers, because they would need to build more cars.
(2) energy companies because more energy is required to drive around empty cars.
(3) Transportation companies, because they would have to hire less drivers.
Everyone who is not making a profit ends up getting screwed with this deal. Furthermore, (3) is just a fantasy because even to this day, self driving cars *still* can’t even recognize small children in the road, much less even more complicated traffic scenarios.
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
It’s all about the money. Each vehicle generating at least $1500 per month.
GruesomeHarvest
GruesomeHarvest
3 years ago
Dumbass politicians who know nothing about science and who have never made anything think they can legislate reality: men can be women, VP Harris can be smart, Biden can be coherent and articulate and EV will be here by 2035. Forget the reality that the infrastructure is not in place and the environmental harm associated with developing this new industry.
These are the same morons that started the war with Russia, and blew up the Nordstream pipeline. I suppose the mass release of methane gas (a greenhouse gas) was ok as well as the burning of cities and the destruction of human lives. All pare for the course for these morons. And now they’ve pissed China off and are looking to start a war there.
God help us! The quality of our political leadership is in the toilet.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
When light bulbs were invented, people didn’t have electricity in their homes. When cars were invented, gas stations didn’t exist. I don’t think gasoline existed either. People didn’t have high speed internet connections 25 years ago.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Exactly, now is a very good time to be an electrician.
Call_Me
Call_Me
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Gasoline existed. It was a byproduct of distillation of petroleum that was considered waste. Kerosene was the desired commodity, gasoline was disposed of in places such as open sewers, also known as rivers.
Call_Me_Al
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Call_Me
Correct. In fact we NEED to keep using gasoline or else the price of everything else made from a barrel of oil will rise dramatically.
This is why I don’t expect ICE vehicles to disappear entirely anytime soon (ie rest of this century).
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
3 years ago
I think the more appropriate question is “How fast will the shift to bicycles happen?”.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
EVs are the future. Production costs go down every year and their reliability goes up.
Existing car makers are about to be buried by Tesla and Chinese brands. The current car makers have loads of debt borrowed for their current factories that make ICE engines. Tesla and the Chinese don’t have this burden. The only thing preventing this now is the EV makers can’t produce cars fast enough to meet demand. The only hope for Mercedes/Audi/Toyota/Honda/GM/Ford is to quickly find a way to make EVs cheaply. Good luck with that.
Battery technology is advancing quickly. Many companies are heavily invested in it. Over time, the batteries will require fewer rare earths. Already happening. And solar panels will be dirt cheap. People will put them on their roofs to help charge their cars. There are companies that have made cars with solar collectors on the cars. The cars charge from simply sitting in the sun. The solar panels are paper thin and can be glued to the car surface.
I would guess 100 years ago people were saying ICE cars would never catch on. There’s not enough oil to make gasoline out of.
GruesomeHarvest
GruesomeHarvest
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Seems like you’re looking at things through rose colored glasses. When considering all externalities, the energy return on energy invest (EROI) is close to unity. A lot of sound and fury signifying nothing (except political grift).
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
First of all, that article is nonsense. Probably written by someone who thinks they’re smart and tries really hard to sound smart. But is actually dumb. Second of all, the problem solar cells solve is getting electricity to the car. Not powering the grid.
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
True to an extent. We are seeing the development of higher energy density batteries and if you take a look at Australia, you’ll see where Tesla has installed “Megawatt” battery storage facilities to ease the strain on Australia’s gird. All the projects I see are calling for decentralize power production with battery storage for generation during the day and withdrawal at night. The grid will still be needed to transport electricity to cloudy areas. Tesla’s Power Walls are an example.
For what it is worth, my PV array produces enough electricity throughout the year to power my EV. There will come a time when I will increase my PV array and install a Power Wall or let my local utility instead manage a “Megawatt battery storage facility”.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
And soon all beggars will ride…
jivefive98
jivefive98
3 years ago
Anyone remember 1992 when the world was going to come to an end in 8 years because all the computers only had two digits for the year? The world didnt end. We had time and have had the time for 30 years to find the materials to make a major adjustment like motor fuels. The kids may not be interested in getting their drivers license at 16, but reality has a way of shifting people to the inevitable. Not to mention all the wasted gasoline and diesel we blow thru today that could be reduced given enough time. We arent moving to electric cars cause it is a better choice. We are moving to them cause we HAVE to. Affordable oil is finite.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  jivefive98
We are moving to them cause we are being told to.
Most of the people are in cities where EVs can work.
The heck with everyone else, they don’t have enough votes.
LPCONGAS99
LPCONGAS99
3 years ago
Mish. I may have never said this but I always come here for your take on so many issues, financial, political. Much respect sir
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
3 years ago
Still way way off Mish. No one will be talking about EVs once Russia expands the war into Europe. We are literally on the brink compared to a year ago. China is also set to support Russia in a bigger way.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
You can’t predict the future, but you can measure the past. At the beginning of 2022, after more than a decade of continual growth, California had 522,445 battery-only electric vehicles, and barely enough charging station infrastructure to support them all (a slight surplus). Furthermore, California has an ideal climate and socioeconomic base for owning electric vehicles. That said, having the resources to replace/build the existing 30 million cars, then add chargers, electric generating and transmission capacity in less than 30 years is (1) likely politically, and (2) almost certainly physically, *impossible*, given that the whole world must also transition in that time frame. And electric big-rig haulers? The physics is simply not there as of today to handle current requirements.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
PS I would agree that to achieve this on the current mandate timelines is not only inflationary, but economically crippling to the point of collapsing the economy. We already have a worker shortage to maintain the non-EV economy at current levels, so I’m not sure where the workers come from to achieve this. Perhaps never never land?
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
There are more than 30 million existing vehicles in US. 16 million sold / yr.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Jack
Think he’s referring to CA.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
There are technological advances happening rapidly. There’s a gold rush towards batteries right now.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
Physics has never successfully stood in the way of politics.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Hi Mish.
“Question of the Day – How Fast Will the Shift to EVs happen?”
I don’t care how fast the shift happens. All that matters is that it is happening and will continue to happen over the next few decades. Fast or slow, most vehicles will be electric by 2050.
Personally, I think it would be better to make far more plug-in hybrids than full EVs for the next 10 years. But then, I don’t have a say in what the manufacturers choose to do.
“Some car manufacturers are accelerating their transition. Others are holding back. This will create winners and losers.”
Yep. That’s how capitalism works. Winners and Losers. New tech replaces old tech. Its been that way for a couple of centuries now.
Regarding various govt mandates and targets for EVs; that’s mostly noise. Mandates and targets change all the time based on the circumstances. Look at all the changes that happened in Europe after Putin invaded Ukraine. Nuclear reactor life extensions, more coal use, and huge LNG imports. Mandates and targets don’t mean much when reality kicks in. I don’t see why you get so stressed about them.
And considering how positive you have been on driverless vehicles, I would have expected you would be cheering for more EVs because they are the ones that will be driverless eventually. Or has your opinion changed on driverless?
Regarding adoption of EVs, the US currently lags China and Europe badly. Does that give us a competitive advantage or disadvantage?
GruesomeHarvest
GruesomeHarvest
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
The need for EVs is purely political. Climate change is purely political. It’s claims are dubious and the actions of politicians do not correspond to reducing carbon emissions. Otherwise, they wouldn’t start wars, blow up pipelines, implement sanction cause more sequitous routes in the energy market, mass import third worlders into first world nations, juice the economy with deficit spending, and on and on. It’s all about control. They just need to propagandize boobtubers and an army of science illiterate SJWs will lead the developed world to its demise.
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
The USA uses about 18 to 19 million barrels of oil a day. We only extract 12 to almost 13 million barrels of oil a day. In order to become “energy independent”, we can try to drill more OR wean ourselves off of oil. Since we have reach peak oil production (reference my link above) or will shortly reach a final peak around 2032 (according to Exxon), we need to get off of oil. Thus the political decision to accelerate this by creating tax credits for EVs to spur their uptake and promotes development on building cheaper EVs.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
What a load of nonsense. Your political cult conspiracy beliefs blind you. I would tell you to wake up and smell the coffee, but you are probably so far down the rabbit hole its too late.
Why do you think China is leading the world at renewable energy and EVs? Its to gain a competitive advantage.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
number 1. anyone who thinks inflation is gone is high. saw the great james grant over weekend. as he stated, inflation is compounding. simple really. steve forbes also there explained the same. the deflation calls are ridiculous. my 100 usd in my pocket buys me a fraction of what it bought in my daily life 2 years and 5 years and 20 years and 40 years ago. deflation folks are stone cold wrong. silly really. NUMBER 2. anyone who is over the age of 15 and thinks there is a spit of difference in D or R are also stupid. not a man alive could pass a blind test on who was in office in whitehouse and congress for the past 60 years in measuring spending, wars, taxing, borrowing, printing and on and on. DUMBPHUCKERY 101. i’d bet any man alive any amount of money they would not get a B on a blind test. i’ll bet a benjamin or title to one of my properties.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
“Some car manufacturers are accelerating their transition. Others are holding back. This will create winners and losers.”
I wish there were a way to look at newspaper headlines from 100 years ago. I wager there were horse buggy manufacturers & lobbyists filling editorials and articles with all kinds of trash talk about those noisy horseless buggies that were doomed to fail.
ThatsNotAll
ThatsNotAll
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD

A good percentage of early horseless carriages were battery powered. Gas fueled internal combustion proved to be superior.

vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  ThatsNotAll
have you ever seen the film, who killed the ev. Mr. Fisker showed us the film at a VC conference about 15 years ago. the old trolleys that lined many cities from LA to little towns along the way back east all had em. the auto and suburban lobby ripped em up to get the Volks out of town and in the auto. the fat industry also was a beneficiary. suburban life is soul wrenching. all the old folks there are depressed. no life. at least the country has wild life to admire.
Dr Funkenstein
Dr Funkenstein
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
You need not to take those type of films seriously. At least “Who Framed Roger Rabbit” was a good movie otherwise. Trolleys failed because buses proved to be far better if you changed routes, maintenance etc. suburban life is soul wrenching? City gangs, poor schools, crime of big cities is far worse for you. Reminds me of when I lived in New York City. When senior citizens were walking the family dog, 90% of the time it was a German Shepherd or something similar. They wanted protection from the criminals big city politicians and judges turn loose.
ColoradoAccountant
ColoradoAccountant
3 years ago
EVs are the answer except they are making Lexus luxury level EVs for $60k, not the reasonable, common man EV we need. My neighborhood is overrun with Teslas, but it is also bicycle friendly. I think there might be concept in that for the future.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
There are affordable EVs like the chevy bolt. Problem is the demand is way higher than the supply. Dealerships are marking up $5k on bolts. there are also a lot of overseas companies making affordable EVs. They don’t export to the US because they don’t want to compete with the $7500 subsidy.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
I see Toyota taking the right approach, keeping hybrids in the mix. I think a lot of people may be surprised at how expensive EVs are to insure. I’d love to hear what EVs owners are experiencing in this regard.
Ford and others appear to looking at LFP batteries as a bridge to solid state batteries. Inflation has to be creating headaches for automakers who were expected battery pack prices to drop, and LFP will help keep costs dropping but will lower range, creating a backwards step for EVs.
The real revolution starts in 3-4 years once solid state start to ship in quantity. Personally, I think the EV craze has jumped out ahead of where the current technology really is. From charging & running in cold temps to lingering fire hazards, there are real issues with current EV battery technology.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
the hybrids kick butt. i had the prius when they came out. past decade i just walk. no auto. my sneakers can take a licking too. only maintenance is some yoga, and massages. all fun, too. no dumbphucks to deal with like auto world has. my acturial life expectancy is much higher too. driving is unhealthy for many reasons, not just accident deaths. walk folks. to the butcher the baker and the candlestick maker, like your great great grandparents did.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Also, electric bikes may grow in importance for short commutes, though they are dangerous.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD

like guns, they’re dangerous to people that don’t know how to use them. If you haven’t ridden a bike in 40 years and decide to take an e-bike downtown, you’re gonna have a bad time.

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Paying about 120 a month in my wife’s model 3. I think 30 of that goes to her lead foot.
alexwest
alexwest
3 years ago
yeah. people are SO GOOD AT PREDICTING THE FUTURE. they must be winning gambling all the time!
alexwest
alexwest
3 years ago
=How Fast Will the Shift to EVs happen?
in what country/ regions?
poor mish.! still think europe/usa is center of universe!
in china there are almost 1.5x more cars sold than in USA.
overall west ppl is about 1 bln. USA 330 + europe 500 (getting old rapidly) + 120 mil in japan (oldest country on earth)
i dont count insignificant casts off of British empire (Canada Australia etc). nobody cares.
so overall earth ppl i about 8 bln! former ussr is about 300 mil, tyrkey 80 mil , iran 80 mil, india 1.5 bln, etc etc etc
most of young consumers are in asia/ afrika/ s/central americas
alx
mike7
mike7
3 years ago
I see a few problems: ICE cars being made today aren’t built well and they install small engines on heavy cars to get better gas mileage. To make them move fast they add turbo. Take a Chevy Trax’s 3 cylinder turbo cost over $21,000 or a Ford Bronco Sport 1.5 turbo priced at $30,000- so, will these cars last over 5 or 10 years and go 150,000 miles plus- I just don’t think they will. But, EV’s cost even more and take away the tax incentives, cost to install charging unit at you home and that most people these days have a very thin wallet, I see a possible bailout to the US auto industry in the near future.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  mike7
great call. and when you say bail out. you mean again.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  mike7
ICE vehicles last a lot longer today than 20-40 yrs ago. Much less maintenance as well. Vehicles used to routinely be in the shop monthly. Body would rot out after 4 years, scrap after 6 yrs. Now vehicle just runs and oil change once a year. 6 yr vehicles are almost like new.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Jack
I’m pretty sure electrics will last even longer.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Depends on if you drive them in the salt in the North.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Order of magnitude less moving parts on EV so intrinsically they should be more reliable.
ThatsNotAll
ThatsNotAll
3 years ago
I see a budding market for mobile electrical power generators – to refuel stranded EVs. Of course the generator platform will be powered by fossil fuels.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  ThatsNotAll
Sounds like a stellar investment. You jump right in there, Virgil. I’ll hold yer beer.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  ThatsNotAll
I have been wondering how many EV miles I could carry in a two gallon gas can.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
If we are on the cusp of recession EV will not do well and oil co have little incentive to increase capex, with Joeski at the helm.
If we are on the cusp of recession being fully committed to EV might lead to financial disaster. EV should be an option. Ford and GM
are Martingale gamblers.
rbarnsey
rbarnsey
3 years ago

This may happen regardless of your political leanings. Tesla has been using LFP batteries in more than half of its cars for more than a year now. LPF do not contain cobalt or nickel. CATL, the Chinese battery giant, is starting production this year on sodium batteries. Sodium batteries won’t need lithium either and are expected to displace lead batteries and be cheaper. While less energy dense that lithium so far, they will be used for energy storage in applications like renewable producers – freeing up resources for cars until the new advancement which seems to be happening every day now. On the supply side for the grids,rRenewable energy production is ramping up everywhere. You can thank Putin for that, not the environmentalists. Projects that were once a maybe have gone quickly to “how fast can we bring this online” in regions where reliance on oil cartels and despots supplying energy is looking pretty stupid. The there is the superiority of the EV for performance, cost of maintenance and , as bonus, cleaner overall. There are bottlenecks in charger availability is some places and it will be a few years for it to be practical for someone without a home charger to consider an EV. But it is coming. And, as more people make the switch, it is going to be harder to find a gas station – that’s just the economics of supply and demand.

Siliconguy
Siliconguy
3 years ago
Reply to  rbarnsey

LFP batteries can’t be charge below freezing, or used at all below -5 C. Since it’s currently -7 C I see a problem. If the car has to be plugged in all night just to keep the battery warm power demand will be even higher that anticipated.

KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Siliconguy
True, but many people live in places that never drop below freezing. I.e. India and Africa. There won’t be a single works for everyone solution for moving to EVs.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  rbarnsey
I think the CATL sodium batteries use some lithium. Just not as much as the older batteries.
But you’re absolutely right about battery technology improving. Another option is the replace the Li with aluminum. It’s very close to becoming a reality.
I see new chargers popping up everywhere. Went for a walk yesterday and a townhouse community near me had a space for charging. It’s one space for maybe 25 homes, so if everyone had an EV, it wouldn’t be a solution. But, it’s a start.
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
3 years ago
As many know, the battery biz has been flooded with gee-whiz breakthrough announcements in the last couple decades. There has been real fire with that smoke, but betting on any particular announcement has been a losing bet. Sigh.
In any case, it appears that “all-electric 2035” is a bet on a sum of many gee-whiz breakthroughs in both generation and storage of electrical energy.
I’m all for such breakthroughs, myself. Why?
Electric cars credibly promise two advantages:
1) Using energy from diverse sources. EVs can be powered by oil. Or sun. Or plants. Or wind, waves, hot earth. You name it.
2) Reliability. Rich people (and the last 250 years has been a demonstration of people-in-the-future-will-be-rich) want reliable transportation. You can bet on a good future for things that are reliable.
That said, oil will continue to be important. There are just too many things dependent on oil. If you’re looking for a breakthrough in the oil area, then it’ll be either oil-from-plants (in huge, cheap quantities) and/or oil from earth that’s produced without benefit of 100 million year old plants in combination with gravity and earth’s heat.
That all said, mandates are, as usual, just bleating from bystanders blowing in the wind.
alexwest
alexwest
3 years ago
Reply to  Felix_Mish
=EVs can be powered by oil. Or sun. Or plants. Or wind, waves, h
you forgot use /sarc
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  alexwest
Yeah, and as long as there is not an emergency evacuation out of a geographical region, which is likely to become a common thing.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD

Have you got your big out bag packed? The aliens are coming!

PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
We get plenty of warning about a hurricane coming. At home, I back in, hook up, and begin recharging – all of 20 seconds. Next morning, I have a “full” pack with over 300 miles of range; enough to get me out of the most dangerous parts of the storm.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
Yup. All I need is an EV that will get me across Utah and Nevada. And back. 😉
alexwest
alexwest
3 years ago
Reply to  Felix_Mish
=You can bet on a good future for things that are reliable.
buddy. quality of new cars is getting worse. you would know if bought new cars!
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  alexwest
Interesting. Yes, I haven’t bought or rented new cars in the last few years. And haven’t seen the Consumers’ Union info for some years.
So, why do you figure new cars are going down in quality of late? Do new Hondas and Toyotas die before they get to 350k?
TheWindowCleaner
TheWindowCleaner
3 years ago
“I do not have the answer to my lead question, and no one else does either because we cannot predict how stupid the politics of this setup will become.”
I do, because I don’t have either a right wing or left wing bias…just a new monetary paradigm solution. With a 50% Discount/Rebate at retail and a 25-50% Debt Jubilee policy at the point of loan signing (an EV would get you a 50% debt jubilee, an internal combustion engine vehicle would get you only a 25% debt jubilee)…the shift would proceed with post haste. Don’t be a dope and a dupe of finance capitalism, be someone who gets on the bandwagon to rejuvenate profit making economic systems. BZZZZT! Okay back to your normal acculturated unconsciousness that Finance is happy to enslave you with.
Mac Timred
Mac Timred
3 years ago
EVs are here to stay, FCVs powered by hydrogen will likely also have a place.
THE KEY IS THAT EVs & FCVs ARE TECHNOLOGIES — technologies evolve rapidly once there is a market so money can be made and therefore investment provided. Imagine if Clinton had mandated that everyone over the age of 15 had to own a cell phone by the year 2015. In 1995 cellphones were not widespread and so that would’ve seemed nuts. But it happened anyway because it was a normal thing to have happen.
IMO, the best battery for EVs in the year 2035 does not exist yet – any more than the smart phone existed in 1995.
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
There is a graph from Exxon-Mobil that shows that the world may have peaked in the production of crude oil for transportation purposes. It also shows a general rise in production from now until around 2032. After that, it starts to fall — permanently.
Here is the link:
and its the fourth graph down. Anything below the orange area is used to make transportation fuels. [Mish, can you post this graph for me?]
Second, there was a recent advancement in battery technology where the energy density of a Lithium Ion configuration was measured at 685 wh/kg.
To put this into perspective, a Tesla Model 3 battery has an energy density of around 250 wh/kg. If the above battery energy density was to be increased by 10%, it would have over 3 times the energy density of a Model 3 battery. In other words, it would be possible to either have a range that is 3 times longer than the current EPA rated 359 miles (1,077 miles) **or** reduce the pack size by about a third.
The other feature of this battery was that after 1,000 cycles, it had only lost 1% of its capacity. in other words, if the above battery were to replace the current Model 3 battery, the Model 3 would have a million mile pack (1,077 miles x 1,000) which is 50 years of driving at 20,000 miles per year and only lose 1% of its capacity.
I do not know what the drawbacks of this new battery are. It’s in the lab but it gives me a lot of hope that we will be electrifying our transportation sooner than later.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
Electric light bulbs aren’t allowed to last beyond a certain time period. At least I’ve learned this from various people second hand. Didn’t care enough to check, but it matches much of what I do know as fact. Modern capitalism is firmly rooted in planned obsolescence (thank God for the spelling hints!). Your talk of longer lasting products being a reality doesn’t work out in this model. If a clean energy source was an actual goal, it wouldn’t be so dangerous to build a hydrogen powered car. These mandates have nothing to do with what they are saying. It never is with government. They are about control. We already have many ways to do just about everything involving energy. The problem is that it’s not easy for the state to control anything that is not centralized. If the state is involved in deciding the parameters of our energy model, it will be as narrow a model as possible. In other words, there will never be a real solution as long as people listen to the state. Political solutions never serve the people.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
Ordinarily I view you as a nutty conspiracy theorist, but the light bulb thing is true.
Youtube’s “Veritasium” did a story on it a few years back specific to planned obsolescence, called “This is why we can’t have nice things”, featuring a lightbulb that’s been continuously on for 120 years and still on, but then manufacturers convened and decided to shorten bulb lifespans to boost sales.
Newer cars also have shorter life expectancies, as do water heaters, boilers…etc…etc.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
The reason that lightbulb has been on that long is because it is VERY low wattage (10 or 15 watts I think). The higher the wattage, the faster the bulb burns out because the heat damages the filament (incandescent bulbs of course).
Now we have LEDs that last FAR longer.
Not sure where you get your info on car life. New cars actually have a much longer life expectancy. Cars made in the 70s barely went 50K miles or 5 years before they were finished because they were still hand assembled (no robots). Cars in the 80s lasted longer and the 90s cars longer still. Todays cars last even longer. You can see the years 1970-2000 here
These days the average age is over 12 years. Cars are lasting much longer.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Light bulbs deteriorate every time you turn it on and off. When you turn on the light switch there is a number of sharp spikes in line voltage to the bulb measured in milliseconds. This causes stress on then filament.
If you turned on you traditional light bulb and left it running it would run for years.
Turn it in and off every 10 seconds and will last a few weeks max.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
It’s an interesting video, he details a well known conference of manufacturers that agreed to intentionally shorten bulb life spans.
Below the video he lists sources you can investigate yourself.
Veritasium is a physicist, Derek Muller.
.
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
Try the LED bulbs, they have several thousands of hours of life and come in various “heats” (e.g., 2700K, 3000K, 5000K) producing light from something akin to the yellowishness of the incandescent bulbs to a very whitish light. You save electricity.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
You managed to miss the point entirely.
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
“Aren’t allowed…”??? Would you care to enlighten us? You realize things do wear out.
If you want things to last longer, how come you have not created the “everlasting light bulb” factory? How much effort would you have to put in? How much to set one up? What would you have to charge per bulb? From your testing, how much longer would the bulbs last?
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
Yep, not allowed. Fines if exceeded. Why would I start up such a factory? You really do live in a bubble. Planned obsolescence has been around since the end of WW2. Lots of info on it. Google it.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
LED bulbs utilize a blend of very narrow wavelengths to simulate broad spectrum sunlight.
We have no data on how our eyes, developed over 100s of thousands of years, will respond to long term exposure to only several narrow colors of light.
They are not sunlight.
There is no going back.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
It would be more credible if the link to the battery technology was to the actual research page, not translation from some popular tech magazine. Just my preference.
Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
I have no way of posting a chart in the comments section but I may post excerpts of those articles.
Thanks
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Thank you for reading my comment and explaining why. It is much appreciated.
Dr Funkenstein
Dr Funkenstein
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
Peak oil was first said to happen 18 months after the first oil well was dug in Pennsylvania in 1959. Ever hear of the population time bomb scares from 50 years ago. Quacks like Paul Ehrlich were predicting in the 1980s 400 million people would starve to death in India.
Brunolem
Brunolem
3 years ago
Nightrite is exactly right.
The US became a full blown banana republic in November 2020, and this is not going to change anytime soon.
The woke-jacobin left is in control of elections, with the full consent of the Republicans.
The saying from Stalin fully applies: it is not the votes that count, but who count the votes.
Any Democrat will win in 2024, even, or especially, if it is man wearing a gown and high heel shoes, and speaking only Spanish.
Quagmire46
Quagmire46
3 years ago
“How Fast Will the Shift to EVs happen?”
Will buyers be disenchanted by poor quality cars, expensive batteries, lack of range and lack of charging infrastructure?
Where will repairs be done? Why are out of warranty repairs so expensive? (even compared to gasoline powered cars)
These will all slow down market acceptance.
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  Quagmire46
I switched to an EV and I LOVE driving electric. The original pack for the Tesla Roadster was around $155K in my estimation. Current manufacturing costs are around $100/kwh or $7500 for a Model 3 pack. With battery advances, I could see that reduced to around $33/kwh with the batteries lasting a human driving lifetime. Please see my other comment.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
Holy cow, you’re saying battery packs went from $155K to $7.5K?
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Yes. The original packs were made up of 6800 – 18650 Lithium Ion cells that were “hand – crafted” into packs:
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Quagmire46
Range anxiety is the number 1 thing holding people back. Solve the infrastructure problem and you solve the acceptance problem. Musk’s greatest accomplishment was building out the charging infrastructure.
The number 2 thing will be mining enough minerals to keeps battery costs down as EVs continue to ramp up in numbers around the world. If costs skyrocket it will stop EV penetration in it’s tracks.
My guess is 50% new cars being EV’s is achievable by 2030 (in 2022 it was 6%). Not saying it will happen but it’s a possibility and I think 25% is practically a given. Essentially that means for a 2 car family one of your 2 cars is an EV and the other remains an ICE vehicle for long distance trips, hauling/towing, emergency bug out (Hurricane evac type thing) etc.
100% is a pipe dream at this point in time.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I disagree that 25% new cars by 2030 is a given. Maybe in states with mandate schedules, but not nationwide.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
There will be a tipping point where a lot of gas stations will have to go away and then getting gas will be an obstacle.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Will they?
Won’t they just convert some of the pumps into electric charging stations so that they offer both in the same way they offer gas and diesel now?
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Some might, but most people will charge their cars at home. Something they can’t do with gas. So the overall demand for car energy replenishing away from home will go down.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Gas stations are proftable assuming 5 minutes or less fillup. They would be unprofitable at any timing more than that without heavy fees. Only so many cars fit in the gas station lot.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
No because they all have those big underground tanks to store the electricity! /sarc
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Range anxiety is more of a myth. I’ve been driving an EV for around 4 years. I know where the public chargers are located and how long it will take me to recharge. Plugshare, the App, is also your friend.
On a long trip and using this as an example: After driving up to 5 hours (300miles at 60 mph), we stop at a Supercharger (at a Sheetz gas station). Back in and plug in. The system automatically handshakes and gives us a green light in a matter of seconds. We go into a restroom and offload. We order a meal and take it out to the car, eat, talk, and finally finish eating. This takes us about 25 minutes. We drop off our trash unplug, and we are on our way.
More and more motels are installing Level 2 charging units that provide around 25 miles of range each hour. After14 hours of eating, sleeping, and breakfasting, we basically have a full pack.
We don’t have to waste time at a gas station.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Sounds like an EV is just perfect for a young single person in an apartment building in the deep suburbs.
Dr Funkenstein
Dr Funkenstein
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
Only if the apartment complex has chargers. They don’t make 500 foot extension cord for you to plug in your wall socket.
FastFish3
FastFish3
3 years ago
The grid in US and EU simply can’t make it happen, trillions would have to be invested, and it won’t happen. The real goal is to force people not to have cars, period.
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  FastFish3
Maybe. But with my PV Solar on my roof. I am able to supply my EV with all its electrons. See my other comment.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  FastFish3
I WALK. no auto. i do go through lots of sneakers per annum. i’m old fashioned. all that fancy rich boy gizmos, like cars. not for me.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
I bicycle. I rarely need a vehicle, and when I do, I have friends that have one. I’m generous with the gas money, so they’re happy to help on the rare occasions I need one. I will be getting one for business within a year, but I don’t enjoy driving anymore and I do like the exercise. I save thousands this way as well. I hardly ever go over 5 miles before I stop, so I spend no more than 20 minutes to get anywhere I go. Basically, I have set up my life so that when I do something, it’s because that’s what I want to do. And I enjoy a leisurely ride on my bike and waving or chatting with all the people and dogs that live on my regular routes.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
spectacular life style. mine is similar, but flaneuring around cities for decades. in my few miles per day strolls i can walk through many different hoods of many different ethnic delights from food to music to people watching………..so many great towns and cities of the world that one need not concern themselves with the rich world toys like autos. autos means idiots.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
I haven’t spent a week total in a city since I left Dallas in 05. Been in so many, all around the world. I enjoyed those things you mentioned a lot, but ultimately I’m happier away from all the hustle and bustle. We have all of those things here as well, but it’s a lot more laid back. Also, the cost of living difference is unbelievable! If you are able to have control of your income, jobs don’t cut it as the 15 dollar jobs at chick filet rank among the highest outside of government workers, then you can live for years on the money you need for one year in a big city. It doesn’t hurt that I’m not a very material person, and that I don’t care about keeping up with those Jones’s. I’ve lived that life before and didn’t find it enjoyable.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
I bought a bicycle.
It’s cheaper than buying all those replacement sneakers.
And it’s quicker when I need to be.
Actually I bought two bikes: a city bike and a road bike.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  FastFish3
“The grid in US and EU simply can’t make it happen, trillions would have to be invested, and it won’t happen. The real goal is to force people not to have cars, period.”
This is also true about them pesky horseless buggies and the countless thousands of proposed “gas stations” they’ll need to refuel.
.
Billy
Billy
3 years ago
Remember when the world was going to end because of the depletion of the rain forest? What about Aids? Y2K? Global Warming? Now Climate Change.
If our government truly believed that the US shifting to EVs would impact the Climate change, then they would be building a lot of gen 4 Nuclear power plants and offer free electricity. I bet you would buy an EV.
You and I can’t change anything anyways. Not even the government can prove that.
But, we can make money off of the ones who are taking advantage of it.
In my opinion, Tesla is and was the leader and saw this coming a mile away. They bought battery manufactures, solar, mines, tech companies, and they built and continue to build more manufacturing plants then any other automotive company in the world. They are working on a gigafactory in Mexico and plan to build about 10 more. How many other auto manufactures are planning on doing any of this?
BTW, the next investor meeting will be March 1st. It’s supposed to be one of the biggest announcements.
Many people have many hurdles that they are concerned about like limited resources and affordability.
Elon’s vision into the next 5-10 years will address these along with his master plan part 3. Some think it will be the path to a fully sustainable energy future for Earth. This announcement is expected to “actually shift the entire energy infrastructure of earth.”
EvForMe
EvForMe
3 years ago
Lithium Iron phosphate (LiFeP) will most certainly be used in the smaller cars — and requires no Cobalt or Nickel. It is already here and in mass production.
Every BEV battery currently uses Lithium. Something to watch — but Lithium is a VERY common element in the earth’s crust. The commodity price of lithium has dropped 20-30% in the last few months in spite of increased battery production.
As for Nickel and Cobalt — they are a bit of a red herring. The majority (more than 50%) of chinese Ev’s already don’t use Nickel and Cobalt. Tesla Model 3 SR does not. Ford in the last few days just announced plans for a new battery plant that won’t use Nickel and Cobalt.
You are looking in the rear view mirror when you talk about Cobalt. Batteries in 2023 use MUCH less cobalt than batteries from 2017. Nickel is still used though for the highest power density batteries.
The energy density of LiFeP is less than the Lithium-Nickel-Cobalt batteries, but on the upside, they last longer and stand up well to more abusive charging patterns. You don’t have to handle the charge cycles with kid gloves.
I already greatly prefer EV’s — WAY less maintenance — but I wish the government would get out of the business of mandates.
I think EV’s will be stronger and better products if they have to win on their own merits instead of win by mandate!
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  EvForMe
Prices of lithium carbonate tumbled a bit, after a sixfold increase in a few years.
JeffD
JeffD
3 years ago
Reply to  EvForMe
“already greatly prefer EV’s — WAY less maintenance”
Especially in South Africa where there are rolling electric grid blackouts, 9 hours out of each and every day. They call it loadshedding.
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
Clearly only the ‘rich’ will own cars by 2050, if a 2035 no carbon automobile mandate is issued in this country.
Highly inflationary and a way to keep the ‘poor’ in their place.
Is there truly enough materials that can be mined to support the EV auto-industry? If not, then the ‘poor’ will really be left out.
Counter
Counter
3 years ago
I remember not too long ago copper futures were trading with no underlying supply, maybe the hot ticket
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Funny how this policy leads directly to the system the various UN agendas posted on their website for anyone to read; but they call you a conspiracy theorist if you mention it.
Even without switching how we power our vehicles, the auto industry is a shambles. They’ve mastered the art of having the car fall apart as soon as the warranty expires. Also, the cornucopia of features place purchasing a new one an economically reckless decision. EVs suck. The wait times for charging measuring in the hours make them useless for anything involving distance. That alone has made many owners regret buying one. It’s a very common complaint. But don’t worry! You’ll own nothing and deserve it. That’s just the price you pay to stay a slave.
PeterEV
PeterEV
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
I’ve kept a number of cars for around 16 years apiece and kept them maintained. They didn’t fall apart as soon as the warranty ran out.
Again, I LOVE driving electric and have no desire to go back to an Internatl Combustion Engined (ICE) car.
I don’t know where you are getting your information but it’s terrible. On the road, I can recharge in less than 30 minutes and that’s while I’m using a rest room, buying a meal, eating it, and then disposing of the trash. In fact, it maybe faster than with an ICE vehicle that may have to wait its turn at the gas pump after “using a rest room, buying a meal, eating it, and then disposing of the trash”. You need to do your homework using better sources of information!!
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  PeterEV
I got my information from people charging at the local gas station. As for the cars, you’re not talking about the new ones. And I got much of my information on new cars from my friend who owns a auto repair shop. Where they work on cars newer than that. Enjoy your electric car. Just keep buying the latest gadgets.
nightrite
nightrite
3 years ago
Dems will cheat their asses off to maintain power. I don’t have much hope for America.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  nightrite
You say this as if there’s any meaningful difference between the two state sanctified parties. It really doesn’t matter which of the two candidates selected for you to choose from wins. As long as you slaves keep demanding masters you have no right to hope. You give that up when you abandoned your right to rule yourself.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
BINGO WINNER

Decorate Your Walls with Mish Fine Art Images

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