GM is stuck producing EVs that consumers don’t want with no hybrid models that consumers do want. What’s the solution?
The Wall Street Journal reports Buyers Want Hybrids.
Dealers who serve on advisory committees to the automaker have urged executives in several recent meetings to add hybrids to GM’s lineup, according to people involved in the discussions. GM has focused on fully electric cars in recent years and largely bypassed hybrids, which pair an internal combustion engine with a small battery and electric motor to boost fuel efficiency.
The dealers said they expressed concern that more customers are looking for a middle ground between conventional gas-engine cars and EVs, which are more expensive and require regular charging.
A GM spokesman declined to comment.
Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and Kia are the major players in the hybrid market. Sales of hybrid vehicles in the U.S. surged more than 50% last year, after a small drop in 2022, according to research firm Motor Intelligence.
The dealers’ pleas for the company to consider adding hybrid models show another dimension of the pressure facing GM Chief Executive Mary Barra as aspects of her EV push stall.
“Customers generally aren’t interested in hybrids, the value proposition there,” Barra said at a Barclays investor conference in 2019. “We believe moving to electric vehicles as quickly as possible is the right thing to do.”
Nearly 5,000 Dealers Send Second Letter to Biden
CBT News reports U.S. Auto Dealers Send Second Appeal to Biden Over EPA’s Strict Emission Rules.
Nearly 5,000 U.S. auto dealerships have issued a second appeal to President Joe Biden, urging him to reconsider the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) proposed stricter vehicle pollution standards. This appeal comes as the EPA nears a decision on regulations aimed at reducing both climate and health-related emissions.
Despite not receiving a response to their initial November letter, these dealerships are voicing their concerns again. They’re worried about meeting the potentially strictest-ever emissions standards, which are part of a global shift toward all-electric vehicle sales. In the U.S., electric vehicle (EV) sales have been growing. They hit 1.2 million units last year. But, they still represent only a small part of the market.
The letter reads, in part:
“On behalf of our customers, we ask that you pause on the electric vehicle mandate. Wait for the battery supply chain to develop outside the control of China. Wait for the charging infrastructure to support a significant increase in electric vehicles. And wait for the American consumer to make the choice to buy an electric vehicle, confident that they are affordable and won’t strand them because of a lack of charging stations.
Mr. President, we share your belief in an electric vehicle future. We only ask that you not accelerate into that future before the road is ready.”
GM’s Dismal Track Record
GMCAuthority reports GMC Ranks Low In Consumer Reports 2024 Reliability Report
Registering the lowest score for dependability among GM’s four brands, GMC ranked below average from multiple perspectives in the 2024 yearly reliability ratings published recently by Consumer Reports.
Several models ranked much higher than the GMC average according to the CR study, but others ranked among the least dependable vehicles of the study, including some of Big Red’s bestsellers.
The reliability rating operates on a scale of 1 to 100, with 100 being the most reliable possible. GMC came in at 36 points, putting it at 24th place out of 30 brands. It has twice the reliability rating of the 18 points scored by the last-place brand, Chrysler. U.S. automakers as a whole average 39 points, while European brands come in at 46 points and Asian carmakers offer the highest dependability with an average rating of 63.
Some Big Red models are strongly above average, including the GMC Terrain, whose 55 rating puts it on a par with Hyundai, Buick, and Infiniti. The GMC Sierra HD 2500 (51) and GMC Sierra HD 3500 (44) also achieved reliability notably above what is typical for American vehicles. However, the GMC Canyon got a 32 score, the GMC Yukon and Yukon XL both rated 30 points, and the popular GMC Sierra 1500 was least reliable at 29 points.
“Sedans have fallen out of favor with consumers,” observed Jake Fisher, senior CR director, “but as a class they are very reliable.”
SUVs, minivans, and pickup trucks were progressively less reliable, scoring reliability levels of 50, 45, and 41 respectively. Viewing the market with ICE vehicles as the benchmark, hybrids have 26 percent less problems than gasoline and diesel vehicles, while EVs have 79 percent more problems and PHEVs experience 146 more faults than their ICE counterparts.
Chevy Ranks Low In Consumer Reports 2024 Reliability Report
For those seeking a second opinion, please note a Consumer Reports study on Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars?
Asian automakers are still leading reliability by a wide margin with an overall reliability average score of 63 for the region, on a scale of 1 to 100. Seven of the 10 most reliable brands are from Asian automakers.
European automakers are in second place at 46, with three brands filling out the rest of the top 10 most reliable brands.
Domestic brands trail both with an average score of 39. Each domestic automaker had at least one model that had an average or better reliability ranking, and Buick’s entire lineup scored average or better.
There are interesting insights with the reliability of electrified models this year. Overall, hybrids have 26 percent fewer problems than cars powered by internal combustion engines (ICE). Some standouts include the Lexus UX and NX Hybrid and the Toyota Camry Hybrid, Highlander Hybrid, and RAV4 Hybrid.
Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) are more of a mixed bag. As a category, they have 146 percent more problems than ICE vehicles. Several PHEVs are even less reliable than their conventional counterparts, such as the below-average Audi Q5 and Chrysler Pacifica. The latter has the lowest score in our survey, at 14.
Still, there are PHEVs that buck that trend, including standouts such as the Toyota RAV4 Prime and Kia Sportage, which score well above average. The BMW X5, Hyundai Tucson, and Ford Escape PHEVs earn average reliability scores.
How the Brands Stack Up
How EVS Stand Up
Electric cars and electric SUVs don’t fare much better, with average reliability scores of 44 and 43, respectively. At the bottom of our vehicle-type rankings are electric pickup trucks, with an average score of 30.
As more EVs hit the marketplace and automakers build each model in greater numbers, we are seeing that some of them have problems with the EV drive system motors, EV charging systems, and EV batteries (which are different from the low-power 12-volt batteries that power accessories). Owners of the Ford F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E, Genesis GV60, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia Niro EV and EV6, Subaru Solterra, Toyota bZ4X, and Volkswagen ID.4 all reported some of these issues.
GM is Stuck
Not only does GM make below average cars, it is on a path for EVs that consumers don’t want.
GM will have to ride this mess out. It couldn’t reverse course now if it wanted to. Here’s why: If GM rushed to make a hybrid, would you buy it?
I wouldn’t. Nor would I buy any new model of any kind from GM.
Why Does GM Sell So Many Cars?
In case you are wondering how GM continually sells below average cars, the answer is tariffs. Trump and Biden both have placed huge tariffs on foreign vehicles in an attempt to force people to buy US brands and overpay for them.
I am a happy Toyota 4-Runner owner.
But I have no problems with EVs other than cost, reliability, charging issues, insurance, operation in cold weather, resale value, and the sad fact that they don’t do a damn thing for the environment.
Obamacare Comparison
Unlike Obamacare doctors, if you like your EV, you can keep it.
Meanwhile, please note Biden did not reply to the 5,000 dealers in November and he probably will not respond to this second letter in January either.
Lack of Customer Demand
On January 11, I noted Hertz Is Selling 20,000 EVs Due to Lack of Customer Demand
Hertz said that it would sell about 20,000 EVs in the U.S., and use some of the proceeds to purchase internal-combustion-engine vehicles. The company in a regulatory filing cited weaker demand for electrics, and their higher operating costs.
Despite Huge Incentives, Supply of EVs on Dealer Lots Soars to 92 Days
On July 13, 2023, I noted Despite Huge Incentives, Supply of EVs on Dealer Lots Soars to 92 Days
EV inventory is piling up on dealer lots. Hello car manufacturers, what are you going to do with all that inventory?
Firm Answer to My July 13 Question
- October 24, 2023: GM Scraps EV Target, Ford Scales Back Electric Trucks, Musk Warns of Challenges
- To Shore Up Share Price, GM Decreases EV Investment in Favor of Buybacks
Wake Up Mr. President, Consumers Don’t Want EVs
On October 16, 2023 I commented Wake Up Mr. President, Consumers Want Hybrids, Not EVs
Three months later, consumers still don’t want EVs.
That statement is guaranteed to rile up the EV lovers prone to respond with percentages of how fast EV demand is growing. So I will nip the nonsense in advance.
When you have 3 percent of the market and soar to 4.5 percent of the market, that is a 50 percent gain coupled with hype announcements of soaring demand.
Lovely. GM is stuck with a slew of new EV models coming down the pike so lets see what it does with them and how reliable they are.
Only 6 Percent in the US want an EV for their Next Vehicle
Only six percent want an EV for their next vehicle but 67 percent want an ICE up from 58 percent last year.
On January 15, I noted Only 6 Percent in the US want an EV for their Next Vehicle
Many EV devotees questioned that number.
If they read Consumer Reports, GMCauthority, or watched Tesla Charging Stations in Chicago Lined With Dead Cars and Zero Temperatures in Chicago, perhaps they would reconsider.
Seeking the Green Utopia
Despite the inconvenient facts, the US and EU governments are hell bent on pushing everyone they can into EVs.
The sad reality is a Green utopia will never exist. Meanwhile, the US and EU are Quietly Killing Vital Industries.
Finally, in China where EVs are soaring, China is still rapidly adding coal power plants to produce the needed electricity. Hooray?
But hey, thanks to government coercion and tax breaks, many will buy EVs and regret it.
For those who do like their EV, congrats, you can keep them. They are perfect for people who don’t go anywhere and like to brag about being environmental trend setters.
Lower Cost, Fast Charging, Organic Batteries to Power EVs
Don’t get me wrong, EVs are coming, by coercion if necessary.
And eventually, they may make complete sense especially if battery technology advances work as promised.
For discussion, please see MIT Develops Lower Cost, Fast Charging, Organic Batteries to Power EVs
The technology seems very promising so assume it works. There are still two key questions:
How fast can this scale to full production? When will the infrastructure be ready?
The reason GM doesn’t produce hybrids, nor ICE powered cars (as opposed to protected trucks) is simple: They can’t compete.
Exactly the reason why we even have BEVs in the first place: Western carmakers were falling further and further behind. So they did the only thing those who can’t can do in a totalitarian society of well indoctrinated saps gullible enough to fall for any nonsense some Dear Leader spews: They made up a new game.
Of course, being entirely made up instead of arising from the actions of rational actors on a free market: This game is just nonsense. But hey: Nonsense is what totalitarian societies full of captive indoctrinates are all about.
At least for a little while: Once things fall too far from anything even remotely resembling real needs and wants; even well indoctrinated saps start asking questions. And then…. tah-dah..
There are only two solutions: Take GM, along with virtually all US companies, out back and BANG.
OR: Stop making and keeping productive Americans, including carmakers, beholden to third rate, utterly useless at absolutely everything, leeches living off of “rent”, “investments”, kangaroo court shakedowns and lobbied-for mandates and bans. NOONE, not even world beaters like Toyota, would remain competitive if they had to keep an army of rent seeking dregs the size of the US one, in protected splendor; despite not one single one of them creating as much as a single penny worth of real value in their entire pathetic little lives.
America is no more fit for productive industry by now, than Russia anno 1990. They due to having to kowtow to apparatchiks. “We”, due to having to kowtow to Fed-anointed; and nothing but; “investors.” Which are both effectively just different terms for exactly the same thing: Useless dregs having, entirely unearned, been handed control over all erstwhile productive resources.
Bashing EVs as a bad option for transportation in every chance of problems the technology faces may be understandable to a certain extend. When I read EVs have 79% more problems than ICE vehicles (and not sure if it was intentional to stating that PHEV have 176 % more FAULTS -not problems- against ICE vehicles), I though it is only possible if you consider more than half of EVs are Teslas in the US and they are crap when it comes to basic car making standards (basic alignments of pieces are off etc.), yet Mr. Musk (not a fan but that’s a different story) has been trying to massively automate the car making process which is a noble pursue, but failed in many ways. I own a 2015 Nissan leaf for 8 years in southern CA and other than a new 12V battery, 4 sets of tires, and 2 sets of windshield wipers, I have not done anything else @ 96K miles and @ about 75% capacity: I am even towing stuff around. There is no way an apple to apple comparison of an EV will generate more problems than an ICE vehicle. The EV fixes (mainly battery/electrical) will be more expensive I agree -but that will get cheaper too-, but the report you post does not talk about the expense, but occurrences. BTW for God’s sake, remember the ICE cars have been around more than 100 years, while EVs in mass production about 12 years? Get a perspective.
Mara has been wrong and continues to push GM in the wrong direction for political reasons. She should be fired. The future is hybrid technology. Pure EV’s have too many downsides to woo US consumers. Despite Mara’s insistence that EV growth will increase, the resale value of EV’s continues to drop. Why would car buyers purchase a vehicle that decreases in value 20%+ per year? I love GM products, but will never purchase a pure EV vehicle, it makes no economic sense. As more manufacturers start selling hybrid vehicles they will take an increasing bite out of GM’s market share.
Mish, don’t forget that the production for the batteries for these BEVs cause massive amounts of pollution, use child labor, and cannot be recycled so they just go to landfills to cause some more pollution.
I really think the focus should have been EV’s that were small, basic and cheap to begin introduction of electric vehicles. The best use now with current tech and infrastructure is for EV use in short commutes with light payloads. As these small vehicles developed improvement in tech. would allow extension of EV into larger heavier vehicles.
There certainly are a great number of alternate battery chemistries under development now as well as projects to improve manufacturing, recycling and mining output. Maybe if we had some sort of free enterprise economic system fully operating we would have had better coordinated progress in this area,
small, basic and cheap EV’s have been around a long time and produce no emissions, they are called golf carts. some in use now can carry up to six people comfortably. These golf carts take people to local stores, etc.
Yes, as a kid I remember an old guy on our street used to do just that to get his groceries . Now I am an old guy myself but my ride is much nicer than his was in 1962 with a li battery and climate controlled cabin. So by small and basic I mean something nice but not something for pulling a trailer or taking a cross country trip..
Plug-in hybrids like the RAV4 Prime have enough battery and motor to cover most daily driving, then use gas for longer trips.
They’re also higher performance off-road and on road because electric motors are more responsive.
They let most users reduce gas use by 90% with no sacrifices. Most consumers and dealers don’t understand them, so their used car values are a very small premium compared to other RAV4 versions.
Plug-in EVs have way too many reliability issues. Also, battery production and disposal are abysmal for the environment.
With their low quality numbers dealers are lucky anyone is begging fo any type of GM vehicle
My wife and I own a 2015 Plug-in Hybrid. It is surprisingly FAST off the line and will cruise at 100mph in Montana, where there is seemingly NO speed limits (we drove it to South Dakota to renew our licenses)…..we love the quiet ops in bumper-to-bumper traffic and in town we only use the EV side. HOWEVER, the range is AWFUL in EV mode. The car is jammed with cool electronics, has a kick-ass stereo, Bluetooth, heads up display, etc. It lacks CARGO capacity though as is is a MiniVan and the battery out back is HUGE and eats up a lot of Grocery hauling area. We do not use it much to travel in. WE WILL buy another Hybrid and are leaning towards a Highlander or Honda.
I bought a CRV hybrid in 2023. The mpg ratings are 38 highway / 42 City
Some interesting notes on combined mpg:
-Neither the heater or AC is on = 40 mpg
-Summer with AC on = 33-34 mpg
-Winter with temp below 35 degrees but above 15 degrees = 30 mpg
-Very cold temp below 15 degrees = 28mpg
A similar ICE CRV is rated at 28 town and 34 highway. I was shocked at my Hybrid was getting less than an ICE in very cold weather. I read that hybrids heaters are electric and that probably drains the battery. The engine ran almost all of the time in the very cold weather.
Yes, and the range REALLY drops in Cold weather. We are in Mexico and ours is sitting outside in Northern Cal at our Folks’ place and I worry about that Battery just sitting there. We wonder if one day it will simply FAIL!
You don’t give GM enough credit. They knew Obama wanted to use taxpayer money to pay off the UAW for their support … so GM became the channel thru which taxpayers go to fund the UAW and their unsustainable benefits snd retirement plans (they are sustainable so long as the taxpayers chip in a few billion here and there). Needless to say, being the channel was lucrative for GM. So their cars may suck and their stragegy to ignore hybrid and go to EV was short-sighted … but I’m sure they can get some taxpayer money (along with the UAW) as long as Biden is still there.
Yes, sucking on the Teat of a Fascist Government. That really works, Huh?
Purchased a new GM 2017 Volt, 60 miles on battery then engine kicks in. It has been a great car. Good down to 0 F (never tested below that). Would buy another but GM killed it off. Volt had a strong and loyal following, but GM ignored it. Obviously, “Can GM Do Anything Right?” is a solid NO.
A Volt doesn’t go 60 miles on the battery unless you are coasting downhill on a warm California day.
I once got about 80 on the battery going from Colorado to north of Denver. I’m not sure how I managed that.
With a tail wind, I might add.
I am NOT in CA! Will not even travel there. Mostly town and mild driving gives 60 miles. Of course, freeway driving or AC (or heater) cuts it to 45. I am still very happy.
Yes, we have friends in Fla that LOVE their Volt and are disgusted with GM.
Tell me about it. I’m looking for another used hybrid and unless one wants a Prius they are scarce as hens teeth and when one finds one they command a huge premium
About a year or two ago Toyota came out and said it wasn’t going to pursue EVs and instead focus on hybrids. Looks like they made the right move.
Toyota ALWAYS outsmarts the competition. We owned two Toyotas and will buy another.
GM and the other American auto companies were making cars lower in quality than foreigners and for decades before Trump became President. So your “it’s the tariffs” is shoehorning a wrong answer into the equation. American car executives simply don’t care for a high quality product as they are obscenely compensated and neither does the UAW.
Pretty much sums up the gist of the matter. American car executives are compensated far better for failure than the Japanese ones for success.
Remember Tesla is an American car company, would preface with most
I’d be willing to bet Chevy/GM is still in business due to their trucks, not cars. That’s why their trucks and SUVs with reasonably sized engines still sell, but are sold at outrageous prices. Hybrid work truck? Probably not, especially if they’re used as work trucks – hauling tons of stuff (literally) both in bed and towing, banged up by contract drivers, minimal maintenance, etc….
From what I’ve heard, GM v8s in their trucks are well built and relatively simple – GM doesn’t want to lose the last of their true customer base.
Driving an EV that lacks an ICE generator is like leaving your house wearing no pants.
Sweden got in. They became NATO #32. Erdogan is smiling. The Mona Lisa isn’t.
After 17 years the DOD gave Boeing an order for 200 F-15EX. The F15 production line kept producing for our allies. New orders for Boeing F15EX and Apache will be shipped in ten years. Recycled will quench thirst. Erdogan keeps the F-16 production line open. Forget about F-35, or F-22. There is a huge shortage of ammunition and hardware. China is watching how depleted we are and how limited our production is. Ford and GM, instead of being fully committed to ev, might be recruited to the war industry, to save themselves, to fill capacity, instead of going to chapter 22 bankruptcy.
You forgot; Brussels contemplating ejecting Hungary from EU.
GM purchased and sold Toyotas a few times in the past so they could provide a viable vehicle. Such as the Pontiac Vibe. I like to find these old, used because they are very cheap (with the despised GM brand name), yet very good.
I don’t know if GM can still buy superior Toyota product, because GM cheated Toyota too many times.
It’s not just GM. Despite what the glossy brochures have to say, you can’t get a Range Rover Sport Plug in hybrid. I asked and the dealer rep says he has gotten 2 in 2 years.
Hybrid solves the problem of not being able to recharge a dead battery in cold weather. Some of the heat from the gas engine can warm the battery so that charging can take place wile driving.
On frigid mornings, I’d put a 100W bulb under the oil pan … now the 100W bulb is banned! Wife wonders where her hair dry went…
2nd Bailout coming for GM ???
Will GM and FORD survive without Govt Largesse . . .
Will they survive with it, is what I want to see…
The 2009 bailout was for the UAW, a part of the Democrat party. Shareholders, non union employees, and bondholders took it on the shorts.
– GM is stuck producing EV’s that consumers don’t want with no hybrid models that consumers do want.
> I do believe GM chose to produce EV’s, by selling out to Biden Inc. for some tokens to be turned in later (2024?).
– What’s the solution?
> Stop Selling Out!
– The dealers said they expressed concern that more customers are looking for a middle ground between conventional gas-engine cars and EVs, which are more expensive and require regular charging.
> The dealers are right, so maybe they should think about selling something the customer wants, or stay with BUD er.. GM.
– A GM spokesman declined to comment.
> What’s he supposed to say? We suck, those in charge sold us out, and then ask: is anybody hiring?
– Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and Kia are the major players in the hybrid market. Sales of hybrid vehicles in the U.S. surged more than 50% last year.
> So no U.S. players playing? 50% increase sounds better than marking down unsold EV’s… just saying Old Joe.
– Nearly 5,000 U.S. auto dealerships have issued a second appeal to President Joe Biden.
> Or what? You won’t buy a painting…
It is absurd that one demented fool seems to have control over an entire industry, taking of course the precise wrong stance. The USA is long, long gone.
Mary Barra divorced Europe bc she couldn’t take it anymore. Toyota, made in Turkey,
is selling in Europe, the ME and Africa.
You ask “What’s the Solution”? Okay, solution now is what SHOLD have been the proper solution a few years ago. Bankruptcy, break it apart and sell the parts of the former GM to real non-government car companies. Yeah, I’ll never get elected running on that platform. /sarc
Ford & GM were fully committed to EV. By the end of the year, or next year, if we
enter recession nothing will move. After raising prices, the first discount set prices to
the original prices. If the orders are not coming, a real discount and negative rates, in real terms. UAW layoffs to cut cost in repetitions. HR will strike back to cover mgt mistakes during a systemic change in the car industry !
No. USA manufacturers have their collective head up u know where. They need to grow balls to tell the greenies they are nuts.
Toyota is the brightest car maker. Just follow their lead, GM.
We own quite a few Toyotas. They are dependable and priced right. Just bought one of their hybrids. It’s for my 120 mile a day commute. Mileage is great. Hybrids just make sense.
I live in the Michigan metro Detroit so as a matter of principle have bought only US cars. Two Fords that were terrible, one Chrysler also bad and the rest various GM cars. On balance I am very happy with my GM vehicles. German cars have better styling in my opinion but are like a high maintence woman nice to look at but to much work and expense to keep. This is per friends who have owned BMW’s, VW’s and Benzes. Japanese vehicles I have no experience with but their styling is unattractive to me. I know they have the reputation of quality but I don’t know anyone who owns Asian cars. On balance I will stay with GM vehicles unless I get sticker shock caused by the UAW, in that case I will explore Asian cars.
Your friends are right about German cars (I’ve owned BMW and Audi). If you want a German car, the best option is to rent it and turn it in when the lease is up. That way you drive it while it’s maintenance free.
It will be a cold day in HELL before I would buy anything with a battery.
Because when HELL freezes over the car would not start anyway.
6% EV on next car purchase, this is just another
pipe dream, more like 3% at best.
Your ICE car has a battery.
The stupid… it burns!
Very Bad management decision with virtually no way to comeback now . . .
“Customers generally aren’t interested in hybrids, the value proposition there,” Barra said at a Barclays investor conference in 2019. “We believe moving to electric vehicles as quickly as possible is the right thing to do.”
That’s not what Toyota was thinking and why they control the market . . .
GM should have been allowed to fail during the financial crisis of 2008-2009. They’ve clearly learned nothing from thier prior mistakes and continue to make crappy vehicles.
Of course they learned something……Do whatever you want because the government is going to bail you out. All of the Big 3 will be filing bankruptcy within a couple of years due to 1. ALL cars will have significantly higher costs due to the new contracts with UAW. People can get lower cost vehicles that are better quality buying Foreign cars (Honda, Toyota, etc.) 2. They’ll be losing money on their EV’s because they can’t sell as many as they’re making. 3. They won’t be selling as many cars as we’re in a recession and people can’t afford to purchase a new car (regular or EV). They can’t afford the interest rate to finance, they can’t afford the auto insurance and the maintenance costs. Many won’t be able to qualify for ANY type of loan after they start making late payments and defaults on other types of loans (credit card, student loans, Mortgage payments, etc.)
Speaking of the FC or 08-09, am I right in remembering that at the time, when the CEO of GM (which makes terrible cars) was forced out, he, holder of an MBA and the mentality that goes with it, was being paid 23 mill, whereas the CEO of Honda (which makes superb cars), holder of a Ph.D. in engineering, was being paid 1.5 mill? IIRC, this came out in the trade press at the time and sank like a stone.
Uh, make that “FC of [not ‘or’] 08-09”