On an Income Basis the Economy is Humming, GDP says No, Which is Believable?

GDP and GDI data from the BEA, chart by Mish

GDP vs GDI

  • Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and Gross Domestic Income (GDI) are different measures of a nation’s economic activity. 
  • GDI counts what all participants in the economy make (wages, profits, and taxes). 
  • GDP counts the value of what the economy produces (goods, services, and technology).
  • Real Final Sales (RFS) is a subsect of GDP that ignores changes in inventory which net to zero over time. Economists generally consider RFS to be the true bottom line measure of the economy.

There are usually slight differences between GDP and GDI but the fluctuations are normally random. 

Since the second quarter of 2021 GDI has been on a tear. The gap is really widening, especially compared to RFS. 

Which to Believe?

Those who think we are not in recession place a lot of faith in GDI. But what is so believable about GDI?

The debate goes like this. 

Recession Believers: Housing is crashing, real wages are declining, and real spending is at best stagnant. The yield curve is screaming recession. Target has warned three time, Walmart once, and the Fed is on a rate hike rampage. 

Recession Disbelievers: Jobs are strong and so is GDI. 

This one is not even close, but people will believe what they want. Jobs are a lagging indicator, and due to massive losses in the Covid recession, I fully expected a minimal rise in unemployment this recession. 

Still, I had no good explanation for the the GDP vs GDI discrepancy, until now.

Expect Big BEA Revisions

“I inquired and a BEA economist said (a) it’s probably mostly due to janky 2021/22 QCEW seas adj. caused by Covid weirdness; and (2) strongly hinted Sept will see big annual revision.”

QCEW stands for Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages.

Index of Wages BLS vs BEA 

BEA data is quarterly and BLS data monthly. In the above chart the BLS Index of Wages is a quarterly average. 

Everything now fits together nicely. Even the alleged strength in jobs is not what it seems.

Increasingly Likely That Alleged Job Strength is a Mirage of Part Time Second Jobs

Lat Friday I commented Increasingly Likely That Alleged Job Strength is a Mirage of Part Time Second Jobs

Since March, the BLS reports that the sum of full and part time employment is down by 48,000. 

Meanwhile, the BLS also reports Jobs have increased by 1.9 million. 

A likely explanation for the divergences is boomer retirements coupled with approximately 2 million people taking extra part time jobs to make ends meet due to high inflation.

But no matter what the explanation, all the pieces point to a GDI that’s not happening. 

It’s amazing that people think this economy is doing well when it’s obvious that it isn’t. 

Last Five Quarters of Real Final Sales

  • 19,449
  • 19,453
  • 19,524
  • 19,469
  • 19,516

That’s an entire year of stagnation. I believe a recession started in May as that’s when retail sales and housing both cracked.

But the whole recession debate is now silly. 

Expect a Long Period of Weak Growth, Whether or Not It’s Labeled Recession

On August 19, I commented Expect a Long Period of Weak Growth, Whether or Not It’s Labeled Recession

On August 26, at Jackson Hole, Fed Chair Jerome Powell Pledges to “Act With Resolve” to Beat Inflation

Key comments: “Reducing inflation is likely to require a sustained period of below-trend growth.”

We have already had a year of very weak Real Final Sales growth (assuming there was any growth at all). Expect more weakness. 

Meanwhile, please note The Fed is Openly Cheering the Stock Market Plunge Following Jackson Hole.

Good luck with that. 

For discussion, please see If Unemployment Levels Remain Low, How Far Can the Stock Market Decline?

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

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david halte
david halte
3 years ago
Real GDI has less relevance to household income as foreign and domestic markets equally inflate. Or domestic prices rise due to increase in domestic wages.
Real GDI as a measure of purchasing power of total incomes generated by domestic production, is adjusted for changes in the terms of trade. Differences between real GDP and real GDI stem from the deflator choice.
The GDI deflator allows relative price changes to affect the number of goods and services that may be purchased in an open economy. Since the value of the domestic dollar will influence export prices, the gap between GDP and GDI should increase when the dollar index rises, particularly above parity.
Jackula
Jackula
3 years ago
It’s good to work, I’m doing light physical labor in my 60’s and even tho I’m not rich I’m fine. Sad to see some more in my circle that have fallen into despair and depression tho. I’ve been running in the early am and although it takes longer the body still acclimated to the heat. I for one would like to see labor more highly valued…self interest lol! My friends survey here in LA is there still seems to be plenty of work for what its worth. Although noticing the restaurant business is slackening from a robust pickup after the pandemic. I suspect if this Ukraine thing continues it’s gonna be a rough winter.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
what i observe is younger adults are happily working 2nd jobs. i would have also when i was in my 20s. i also observe boomer types scared about inflation and dropping markets. stagflation. it’s stagflation with tight labor markets. every place i see in my major city has help wanted signs. i know tons of 20 and 30somethings. they are loving the money making…………..
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
i also observe boomer types scared about inflation and dropping markets
They should be afraid of losing social security and medicare….and financially planning for that inevitability.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
just collected this year for first time. pays for months groceries. i suspect a bag of groceries when i get to 75 or 80.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Perhaps only a Big Mac and fries.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
“But the whole recession debate is now silly.”
Agreed.
“Expect a Long Period of Weak Growth, Whether or Not It’s Labeled Recession”
Agreed.
Now, where to invest?
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Quit being a broken record.
Some day you may realize the best things in life don’t involve (much) money.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Investment ideas are why I am here. Got any?
shamrock
shamrock
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Do you realize this is not an investment blog? It’s global economics and politics.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
I am completely open to investment ideas, long or short. Papa Dave is Johnny One Note, but that’s okay by me.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
He’s not the only one. How many times do you post about “USD > xxx?” Virtually every other thing you post is repetitive and the “collapse” hasn’t come yet but keep calling for it day after day, month after month, year after year and it will come. It’s the pot calling the kettle black.
If we’re not all here to make money then what are we doing here?
It’s easy to say that a house is on fire when you are standing 50 feet in front of it but no one asks where the fire hydrant or hoses are nor should we put the fire out from the top or bottom or inside or should we call for additional help.
We all need to take it to the next level. Imagine what this site could be if everyone contributed rather than ranted.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Data changes dailey and monthly. Tony always makes valuable data contributions. His analysis is insightful.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
I think you will find that many of us have already taken precautions and fireproofed the building. I started installing sprinklers back in 2018, which gives me a factor of safety. Now, we are watching a recession, or worse, happen. BTW, the USD is a key ingredient. That the $ sign is > indicates that other countries are in far worst shape. Global recession will be ugly. A dollar crash will be infinitely worse. Some people mank fun of the gold holders, yet some central banks are accumulating.
Next, if you read carefully, there is a lot of useful investment information going out. A similar thing happened in 2006-7 on Nouriel Roubini’s website, but seldom if ever in plain sight–truly smart people don’t brag. For example, the risk seekers shorted banks (using publicaly available data) with uncanny accuracy, until it was made illegal. At the same time, there were creative suggestions to stem the blood-letting.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
There are few that can have Goldman create a custom CDO for them.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
The reason I’m here is to be up to date on economic info, from MISH.
I don’t have any money in the stock market, if people want to gamble with their money it’s their right!!!
And to see what propaganda the establishment and their enablers is spinning!!!
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
I don’t have any money in the stock market,
Then I will click ignore, nothing personal but don’t need to read any more political rants, you can get those on social media all day long or zerohedge.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
That’s both funny and sad. In other words, you have no good reason to be here. Nothing actionable at all.
radar
radar
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
What’s the point of gathering economic info if you’re not going to do anything with it?
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
“Some day you may realize the best things in life don’t involve (much) money.”
Thats funny. Outside of the small amount of time I spend on this blog gathering investment info, I have a great life. One of the keys to a great life is to be able to focus on what is important, and what I can control. And to not waste time, or fret, about things I have no control over.
I feel sorry for most of the morons who waste so much of their time here, venting their anger, promoting their conspiracies, and playing the political blame game. What a way to waste life. Now that’s sad.
radar
radar
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Haven’t you been a broken record? Money isn’t the most important thing in life, but I certainly don’t come here to make my life more colorful. I wish I never had to think about any of this mess, I don’t like it at all. But it has been forced upon me by a bunch incompetent political hacks. Just trying to figure out how to survive. Please help.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
I am so tired of this.
Papa, invest in things that appreciate in value over time and can be easily sold.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
“There are two ways to measure the economy”
Nope.
There are exactly zero ways to “measure” an economy. Measurability requires cardinality. Economies deals with, optimises, utility. Utility cannot be cardinally valued. Hence cannot be “measured.” Only compared for “better or worse.”
Preferring a glass of water to a slice of bread, does not imply one prefers water to bread. Such that one prefers to starve to death in an ocean of water. etc., etc.
Logically and economically challenged dilettantes can certainly come up with an infinite, entirely arbitrary, claims to to “measure” whatever they fancy, though. Many more than two.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
Stuki In Da House!
May Wall Street get “Duke and Duke(d)”
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
Very insightful. I don’t care about economic statistics so much as the data that leads me to companies that are profitable to buy and hold and those that won’t be to short via puts.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
“The economy” is an abstraction in many ways, especially when it comes to measurement, and therefore difficult if not impossible to measure with true precision. Even the parts can be difficult, such as employment and inflation. There are many conceptual issues, and even without them the actual measurements quite difficult depending on how much precision one demands.

Does that mean we throw up our hands? Not at all. We might not be able to really say just how many people are “unemployed” or “employed,” but we can get close enough for horseshoes most of the time. Except when we can’t, in which case we point out the anomalies. What we do know is that in March 1933, a far higher percentage of those available for employment couldn’t get a job than, say, in August 1998. In fact, we can do much better than that, but it’s probably worth mentioning that we’ll never be able to hit it on the nose; not only are the measurement tools by their nature imprecise but there are conceptual issues with respect to what “employment” and “unemployment” actually are.

Water v bread is a terrible example given that they are both requirements for survival, with circumstances responsible for how those are prioritized from time to time. People with finite resources make substitutions all the time, and they are relevant. Bottom line: Your rather feeble attempt at scholasticism comes across to me as straight out of a high school honors class. Congrats, but get real. LOL

StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
“Does that mean we throw up our hands?”
Yes.
Five year planning doesn’t not work only because the five year planners weren’t “smart” enough. It doesn’t work because it cannot work. A planner with a brain the size of the universe, couldn’t make it work.
Noone is any more “unemployed,” nor “employed” than others. People are always and everywhere maximizing utility. As in, doing “work” which “earns” utility. That’s everyone’s only economic work. There is NO, as in hard zero, difference, whatsoever; whether the utility optimising “work” one guy happens to be doing happens to be “counted” by some arbitrary clueless clown of unearned privilege, or whether that utility optimising work is not. (If you want a very practical, and very destructive, example of where the progressive, childish obsession with “but we must try” leads: “The economy” is supposedly, according to progressive idiots, “doing better” if women is sitting around in cubicles and “meetings” having mindless opinions about nonsense they don’t understand, than if they are productively cranking out functioning children.)
Instead of people too dumb to follow even elementary logic running around trying to “measure”; always in order to then “manage”; that which cannot be measured hence cannot and should not be managed: Proper focus is simply on ensuring everyone has as few restrictions as at all possible, on maximising their own utility. The fewer such restrictions, the larger the range of choices available to them. Hence, more optimal their allocations. Hence, the better off the economy will perform. Period. No made-up-from-thin-air-and-mindlessly-believed-and-regurgitated-by-mororns “measurements” required.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
The Vogons discovered the futility of this ages ago, but their bureaucracy continues just like ours.
Besides, too many folks forget that trying to measure anything (distance, time, widgets, etc.) depends upon your velocity.
Cranking out functioning children is much more difficult than it first appears.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
Price still remains the best guide to value. That’s why those ‘10% off’ sales always work. Economics pay lip service to value–it is impossible to measure individual values except when it manifests as price. Bob Lutz (Car Guys and Bean Counters) often talked about ‘index of passion’, because passion drove people to buy cars, not safety, mpg, etc.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Last year’s Thanksgiving turkey cost 40% more than the prior year’s, but I don’t think its value rose by 40%. LOL
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
The economy is resting, in a trading range. The real final sales do nothing for 5 Qt.
Option #1 : NDX will cont to plunge. Option #2 : The blue zone, who predict the end of the world, will lift SPX to Mar 29 high ==> an inverse H&S. Min target : 5600.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
I believe the Baltic Dry Index that says shipping has fallen off a cliff.
My thesis: market tanking all the way down to January 2024
My strategy: buy puts on key “punching bag” stocks at each and every rally all the way down. Cash out accordingly.
A few more Fed hikes should help accelerate the process.
Now is the time to position for the greatest profits to be made. Encourage all to watch the movie the Big Short to get some ideas if you have none.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Profits are a component of GDI. There is certainly nothing wrong with being a profitable business or making profits in general. Profits may or may not include productivity. In this day and age many profits are mostly monetization and not indicative of any productivity or anything being produced. GDI is not a good indicator of economic strength.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Unlike Volker’s inflation, this inflation isn’t being slowed by a decline in money velocity, or an increase in the demand for money.
el85-23.pdf (frbsf.org)
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
Doesn’t the decline in V the result of inflation slowing down rather than a cause?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Without cranking real numbers, I think there is a case (between 1997 and 2016, at least) that unemployment and GDP have some inverse correlations at ‘inflection points’ (coincident sometimes). Not leading, or lagging, perhaps minimally. If there is a timing difference it appears to be a few months. Draw your own conclusions about personal income wrt to GDP.
If someone has average lead/lag times and correlation coefficients, could they post them?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Oops… personal income should be real median household income. Note the increase typically occurring at the top end of business cycle, when labor is near full employment… pretty flaky though after 2008–that’s expected for the Obama years 🙂
Robbyrob
Robbyrob
3 years ago
The Obscure Economist Silicon Valley Billionaires Should Dump Ayn Rand For On Henry George, an economist who was lionised in the late 19C — “the
Thomas Piketty or John Kenneth Galbraith of his time” — but has been
forgotten, and deserves better. He made the best short defence of free
trade: “You wouldn’t fill your harbour with rocks to keep out goods your
citizens want to buy, would you? Well, that’s what you’re doing when
you slap tariffs on imports” https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/09/the-obscure-economist-henry-george-ayn-rand
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Robbyrob
The debatable ‘benefit’ of Trump’s tariffs on China was it gave other Asian countries a chance for a greater role in low-labor-cost production. That said, Covid is proving to be a far better leveler of the Asian playing field.
Biden’s tariffs are an absolute cluster fudge.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Those here might find it useful in looking over the methodology the Bureau of Economic Analysis uses to calculate the GDI and and the GDP. The data source part is illuminating and very detailed.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
If you look at the pie charts that compare the data sources for the GDP vs the GDI it shows the GDI uses much more indirect indicators than does GDP so GDI could capture more economic activity than GDP.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Bull in the China Shop
dxy > 110
usd/jpy > 142
euro/usd .99
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
There has to be large financial institutions on the wrong side of those trades. Once one goes down, they all do like dominoes. Like what happened with bear in 2008. Then Lehman soon after. Quickly followed by them all.
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Bail ’em all out and make sure Jaime Dimon gets another set of official White House cuff links to wear in front of Congress to go with his vintage 2009 set.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Avery
I like Jamie Dimon. People hate the bankers, but they’re just playing by the rules. It’s the rules that are unfair.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I like rules.
I just wish I could have some exceedingly favorable ones especially manufactured for just me.
Esclaro
Esclaro
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Bingo!
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Mish,
Is it possible that the rise in GDI is simply the stimulus money handed out by Uncle Sam?
The discrepancy between GDI and GDP says there is extra money from ‘someplace’ being pumped into the economy allowing wages/profits etc to rise without any productivity rise. The most obvious explanation is the trillions of free money handed out (stimmy money to people, stimmy money to businesses for retaining workers etc) for no work done.
This also mirrors the rise in inflation since that extra GDI money is now chasing the same amount of GDP (goods).
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Seth Ackerman: “anyone noticed the unprecedented divergence between BLS agg payrolls and NIPA priv wages/salaries? i inquired and a BEA economist said (a) it’s prob mostly due to janky 2021/22 QCEW seas adj. caused by covid weirdness…”
There is a whole lot of Janky going on. There is such a disturbance in the force, to use a phrase from Star Wars. It’s all unprecedented and still reverberating through the global economy. I can see the signposts in the charts, but it it is like watching paint dry, waiting for the obvious recognition point. We may not be by the data stream, technically in a defined recession, but it is obvious there is receding going on, even if there is yet a t to be crossed or an i to be dotted. Kudos to MISH, if in future hindsight, he has gotten it right, and if not, i applaud the effort he has put in to try and figure out in advance. It has all been quite the information overload for me. Never boring learning something new.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
“Jobs are a lagging indicator, and due to massive losses in the Covid recession, I fully expected a minimal rise in unemployment this recession.”
Where we diverge. I think 3 to 5 million jobs will be lost this go round (compared to 8 million in GFC). Too many recent hires (easy to let go). Small business on the ropes (not able to pass on inflation). Quiet Quitting. What business will think twice about terminating someone doing minimum?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
That might be true for full time employment. But the numbers include part time and second jobs etc. So while there could be a loss of full time employees, it could easily be made up numbers wise by lots of part time or second job people.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
It could. It won’t (imo).
Another thing driving up UE will be gain in participation rate. I fully expect some recent retirees (past 2 or 3 years) … who quit early due to gains in 401K / Home will be attempting to re-enter work force … after Assets take a dive.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
No revisions until after mid terms.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
potayto? potahto?
GDP / GDI governed by ballistic missile of debt growth since Q4 2020.
Domestic non financial debt growth
December 31st 2020 … $61.3 trillion
March 31st, 2022 … $66.7 trillion
As financial conditions tighten (and losses make their appearance) both will take a Dive.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
What’s funny in that GDI is 4% higher than GDP and that difference is close what some estimates are for the underground economy in the US.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
OK, but hasn’t there always been an underground economy?
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn

Yes but maybe it is now measured. Perhaps the methodology
that the BEA uses to comply its figures somehow captures indirectly a part of
the underground economy’s activity. I am not asserting that it does, only
wondering if it might.

Karlmarx
Karlmarx
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Interesting thought – underground economy moving away from drugs since they are basically legal in a lot of states, and moving toward straight out theft through organized retail crime, which is much more trackable
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Perhaps the 87,000 new armed IRS agents will track dogwalkers to see if they are walking their own dogs or getting paid for walking other dogs?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
I made a similar comment a while back–about the growth of the ‘undependent’ contractor, post Covid. It also explains those 87K IRS workers.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Indirect measures would pick this up. The IRS has been pretty much gutted over the last decade or so. The 87 K just brings the headcount back up to where it once was. Everybody hates taxes but some people think that they have the right to not pay them whatsoever. They see every time some money comes out of their pocket, even for necessary government services, as theft.
shamrock
shamrock
3 years ago
My initial thought based on the headline was that income is going up more than productivity, creating the gap between GDI and GDP.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
Well, duh. Top of the business cycle=diminishing returns. New employees are paid more and are less productive

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